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CRMcNeill
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Whill
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: EIII "Alternate" Ending |
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| Quote: | | The thing is, though... That Scene Almost Went Very Differently... As in, as an intrepid Redditor Join_You_In_The_Sun recently spotted, the filmmakers original plan was for Padme to have arrived...prepared. As concept artist Ian McCaig reveals... |
First of all, the scene did not "almost" go as described. Let me quote The Art of SW EIII RotS. "Meanwhile, because the script is still being written, the artists are free to imagine what might happen in the course of the film. A great deal of time is spent speculating on the events surrounding Padme and her eventual fate..." Lucas thought the idea was worth keeping in mind for possible further development, but as the script developed the knife was eliminated.
And the rest of this "alternate" is just the article's author coming up with his own idea.
Hey, it's your Star Wars universe, so whatever floats your sail barge.
A big problem people have with the actual ending is the medical droid's suggestion of Padme's death being the result of her losing her will to live. I understand that sentiment because I have a problem with that too. Betrayed spouses don't just willingly orphan their children. As heart-broken as she was over Anakin, the new babies she just gave birth to would be the new priority. Would she be a "sad" mother as Leia later seems to remember? Sure. But if the Padme character is to make any sense at all, then her will to live for her children should override everything else. Lucas suggested the literary meaning that Padme died of a broken heart and that's what he settled with. I get what he was going for, but that symbolic meaning still doesn't help the realism of the ending we got.
What I find to actually be the source of problem with the 'losing her will to live' thing is the tendency fans have to assume that everything characters say in fiction is true and correct. I don't need to alter the ending of the film to get rid of losing the will to live. My solution is simple: He was just a medical droid. What the hell would he understand about the human will to live?
In my SWU, Padme died from the power of the Dark Side. Anakin/Vader didn't just telekinetically squeeze her throat. She was completely conscious and then when he "let go" of her to confront Obi-Wan, she fell down unconscious. Charged with negative emotion, Anakin/Vader thrust Dark Side energy into her during the Force choke. Weakened by late-stage pregnancy and giving birth to twins (no easy feat), she succumbed to the "Dark Side poisoning". I say she began dying as soon as Anakin attacked her with the Force, and it was her willpower that kept her alive for the baby. She may have even self-induced her labor through sheer will to save the kids. So she kept herself alive long enough to save the twins then died. The droid didn't know what he was talking about. Anakin/Vader was so powerful with the Force but untrained in the use of the Dark Side that he had overdone it and killed Padme, much to his dismay when he later found out about it. And that preserves Lucas' literary aspect of Anakin joining the Dark Side to prevent his vision of Padme dying from coming true, when it turned out he is the one that caused her death (with the Dark Side).
If Padme stabbed Vader, then he wouldn't be quite so distraught by her death. I can see a Sith Lord being all like, "I killed her? Good. That's what the b!tch gets for knifing me." Ha ha. Seriously though, if she attacked him, he wouldn't suffer so much about her death. Vader losing Padme, his whole reason for joining the Sith, left him a slave to the Dark Side with nothing left to hate but himself. I like that.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:08 am Post subject: |
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I would have actually liked that alternate ending.
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: Re: EIII "Alternate" Ending |
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| Whill wrote: | | What I find to actually be the source of problem with the 'losing her will to live' thing is the tendency fans have to assume that everything characters say in fiction is true and correct. I don't need to alter the ending of the film to get rid of losing the will to live. My solution is simple: He was just a medical droid. What the hell would he understand about the human will to live? |
Polis Massa medical droids: almost always right 57% of the time!
"Obi-Wan Kenobi has lost the will to live. Prepare cadaver for storage."
"Um, no, I'M not the patient! I'm not even unconscious!"
Or maybe the Old Republic Medical Insurance Program only covers 10 minutes of treatment for childbirth. Vote Palpatine for reform!
Anyway, no I don't think it would have been a good idea for Padme to stab him. Unless it was Ep. II in the fireplace room. "Get the hell away from me you creep!" 
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: Re: EIII "Alternate" Ending |
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| Whill wrote: | | What I find to actually be the source of problem with the 'losing her will to live' thing is the tendency fans have to assume that everything characters say in fiction is true and correct. I don't need to alter the ending of the film to get rid of losing the will to live. My solution is simple: He was just a medical droid. What the hell would he understand about the human will to live? |
Or it was just a REALLY BAD medical droid. The following day this happened:
Droid: This patient too is loosing the will to live.
Nurse: Will to live? No. He's loosing blood!
Droid: Yes, his will to live is getting everywhere.
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Zarm R'keeg
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: Re: EIII "Alternate" Ending |
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| Whill wrote: | | I understand that sentiment because I have a problem with that too. Betrayed spouses don't just willingly orphan their children. As heart-broken as she was over Anakin, the new babies she just gave birth to would be the new priority. Would she be a "sad" mother as Leia later seems to remember? Sure. But if the Padme character is to make any sense at all, then her will to live for her children should override everything else. |
Here, here! I feel exactly the same.
In that sense, having Anakin's attack be more violent, to actually cause her death, might be an 'improvement' (though I cringe at the thought of advocating violence against a pregnant woman, so I'm EXTREMELY glad the author supposed version never happened!) in terms of fixing that plot point... but I really think the only satisfactory way to resolve this and not have Padme be a horribly selfish person would be to have her live. (With a bonus of matching ROTJ). Leaving it as it is makes her appear to willingly abandon her children. Increasing the violence to actually kill her would be... unpleasant, to say the least. Poor content for a Star Wars film. Just overall... no.
Letting her live- while it does take some of Vader's guilt at believing he caused her death (which I don't think is particularly necessary to the character of Vader) would allow her to remain strong and un-character-assassinated.
But, unfortunately, that's not what we got. And yeah- I think Whill's assertion that the idiot droid just had no idea what it was talking about is the best compromise with what we have to work with.
(Previous SW special editions have no problem altering the dialogue in ANH by switching to the alternate sound mixes; maybe Disney could release a ROTS SE where the droid is either dubbed to say 'A force beyond our understanding is killing her,' or else be redubbed to still say all the same lines, including the 'lost the will to live,' but with Goofy's voice, so that we know not to take anything it says seriously? 
| cheshire wrote: | Droid: This patient too is loosing the will to live.
Nurse: Will to live? No. He's loosing blood!
Droid: Yes, his will to live is getting everywhere. |
Hahahaha! That's great.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: EIII "Alternate" Ending |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | What I find to actually be the source of problem with the 'losing her will to live' thing is the tendency fans have to assume that everything characters say in fiction is true and correct. I don't need to alter the ending of the film to get rid of losing the will to live. My solution is simple: He was just a medical droid. What the hell would he understand about the human will to live? |
Or it was just a REALLY BAD medical droid. The following day this happened:
Droid: This patient too is loosing the will to live.
Nurse: Will to live? No. He's loosing blood!
Droid: Yes, his will to live is getting everywhere. |
| Barrataria wrote: | Polis Massa medical droids: almost always right 57% of the time!
"Obi-Wan Kenobi has lost the will to live. Prepare cadaver for storage."
"Um, no, I'M not the patient! I'm not even unconscious!"
Or maybe the Old Republic Medical Insurance Program only covers 10 minutes of treatment for childbirth. Vote Palpatine for reform!
Anyway, no I don't think it would have been a good idea for Padme to stab him. Unless it was Ep. II in the fireplace room. "Get the hell away from me you creep!" |
That's all just great. Thanks, guys. I needed that laugh.
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good one, too.
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | That's a good one, too. |
It's not beyond reason that Palpatine could have affected Padme by long distance through the Force. They are from the same planet and he's known her since she entered into politics as a little girl, so maybe he developed some sort of psychic link with her over the years. Palpatine clearly had a link with Anakin because Palpatine could sense when Anakin was in danger across the galaxy. Perhaps Palpatine somehow took advantage of the link between Anakin and Padme and used it to drain life force from her and transferred it to Anakin, like a third party vampire of sorts. That would allow Palpatine to slowly kill Padme from a great distance without actually knowing exactly where she was or that she had given birth. Palpatine did know she was dead and was very pleased when he told Vader that he had killed her.
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | Palpatine killed Padme
I find this theory compelling. It's like my explanation, but Palpatine did it! |
I don't hate that one, but I think the more obvious choices are 1) Palpy somehow sensed that she was dead, or (more obvious to me) 2) he's lying...I mean telling facts from a certain point of view to mislead Anakin.
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Whill
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Well, many force powers do have a relationship modifier, and being Acquaintances which is what i would consider them to be is only a +7 to the target #.
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I personally don't agree with Padme simply curling up and dying of a broken heart. This was a fiercely strong woman; passionate, outspoken, and very independent. She could certainly have raised those kids without Anakin.
The problem then becomes how to kill her off, because you HAVE to have the kids split up to fit into the pre-existing SW universe. Was she broken-hearted? Absolutely. Was she hurt physically by Anakin's attack? Undoubtedly. However, the Force choke attack really should have been more violent, in order to properly explain her simply dying after the kids are born, even though that in itself is a very physically demanding process. I don't know how I feel about Palpatine having been a part of that, but I do like the idea of Anakin being kind of wild, reckless, and not quite so able to control himself when drawing on the dark side. After all, it's a brand-new thing for him to fully give in to the dark side, and it's a heady experience. Plus, he was flush with all the giddiness (and guilt and self-loathing) of having just completely massacred the entire Separatist command, plus all their aides, guards, and support staff. He didn't know his arse from his elbow at that point, and was trying to sort it all out. He SHOULDN'T have been able to control himself at that point, and it could (and SHOULD) have been better expressed in the movie. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion. |
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Whill
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