2E Atmospheric Speeds

[CRMcNeill]

So, this is something I've noticed recently, and while I have some reservations about it, I don't really have a solution. I'll just throw it out as a discussion starter.

Recently, I got curious about the progression of Atmospheric speeds for starships as compared to their Space speeds. While the Space speeds are arithmetic, the Atmosphere speeds are not. What's more, the progression of speed increase is very inconsistent.

2 = 225; 650kmh
3 = 260; 750kmh
4 = 280; 800kmh
5 = 295; 850kmh
6 = 330; 950kmh
7 = 350; 1000kmh
8 = 365; 1050kmh
9 = 400; 1150kmh
10 = 415; 1200kmh
11 = 435; 1250kmh
12 = 450; 1300kmh

I looked for but couldn't find a ship with a Space of 1 that also had an Atmosphere rating, but this is as complete a list as I could find. For a better idea of the inconsistencies to which I was referring, there is this:

2-3 = +35 / +100
3-4 = +20 / +50
4-5 = +15 / +50
5-6 = +35 / +100
6-7 = +20 / +50
7-8 = +15 / +50
8-9 = +35 / +100
9-10 = +15 / +50
10-11 = +20 / +50
11-12 = +15 / +50

The progression begins with an uneven, yet relatively orderly repeating sequence of +35/+100 to +20/+50 to +15/+50, which then repeats once before jumping out of sequence starting at the 9-10 transition. There seems to be no direct connection between the progression of Space values and the increase in Atmosphere values. For example, while an A-Wing (Space 12) is 3 times as fast as a stock YT-1300 (Space 4) in Space, it is only 1.625 times faster in Atmosphere (based on maximum speed in kph; using basic Move values, the difference is ~1.61).

As I said, this is not something I have a solution for, just a general sense that it is wrong. Has anyone else noticed this? If so, did you find a solution that you liked, or was it just not important enough to worry about?

Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

So should it be a set speed boost, say +20/+50kmh
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[CRMcNeill]

I'm not sure. Any house rule I can think of would require a major re-write of all existing stats, and I try to avoid that.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Zarn]

In my opinion, you're trying to correlate something which does not correlate very well.

Space speeds are only indirectly comparable to Atmospheric speeds. A space fighter, for instance the IRD, was not streamlined for atmospheric flight. The IRD-A, was. Referencing the illustration, it seems that an engine cowling was added, in addition to wings and a rudder.

The streamlining done on the hull would heavily impact the atmospheric performance of any craft. Personally, I suspect that the TIE fighters really should have a heavily degraded performance in atmosphere, something like negating all of their maneuvering dice, and inflicting damage on them if they do high-speed drastic turns (such as two turns in one round while going at several hundred klicks per hour).

Getting from a landing pad to orbit is mostly a matter of thrust and repulsorlifts, and sufficient structural integrity. If all you're capable of is 100 km / h straight up, but you can sustain it for hours upon a time, you'll get to orbit. Eventually.

Getting from the surface to orbit with panache and speed, being able to hold your own in a dogfight, or do some fancy atmospheric maneuvering such as aerobreaking - well, that requires streamlining. And few craft in Star Wars seem to be streamlined.

You could do some handwaving with shields being able to provide streamlining. Perhaps you have a plasma generator that can sheath your craft in plasma, drastically reducing drag. But aerodynamically speaking, an A-wing should outperform a TIE in an atmosphere no matter how you measure it, and a TIE Bomber should have the glide characteristics of a particularly ornate brick).

[garhkal]

Good point on the type/shape of a ship should impact its speed more so than its space rating.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[CRMcNeill]

When I was doing my research, I noticed that, while late model Z-95 Headhunters have a Space of 7, their Atmosphere is equal to that of a ship with a Space of 9.

While I agree that ship shape should have been a factor in a ship's Atmosphere, WEG applied it arbitrarily at best, and in only one instance was that application based on official material (the IRD). In the other two cases (the Arakyd Helix and the Skipray Blastboat), the penalty was applied to Maneuverability, not Atmosphere.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

Speed in general, seems to be arbitrarily decided for most canon ships.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[atgxtg]

This might help.

In an atmosphere, the atmospheric drag is the major factor that limits vehicle speed. If everything else is equal then atmospheric speed should increase at the square root of the Thrust-to-Mass ratio (i.e. Space Speed). So a ship that was 3 times as fast as another in space should be about 1.73 times as fast in an atmosphere.

Now, usually everything else isn't equal. Things like streamlining and lift provided by the vehicle can affect it's speed, to name just a couple of factors. Add in the fact that the speeds in the RAW appear to be rounded off, and the 1.625 factor is reasonable.

If you use KPH= (square root of SPACE)*317+177 and round off to the nearest increment of 50 you get:

1 = 175; 500kmh
2 = 225; 650kmh
3 = 260; 750kmh
4 = 280; 800kmh
5 = 315; 900kmh
6 = 330; 950kmh
7 = 350; 1000kmh
8 = 365; 1050kmh
9 = 400; 1150kmh
10 = 415; 1200kmh
11 = 435; 1250kmh
12 = 450; 1300kmh

which matches up with the RAW, with the sole exception of SPACE 5. Not too shabby, right?

I could probably tweak the conversion factor a bit to try and get a better correlation, too. Part of the problem here is that the RAW rounds off the MOVE and KPH scores and it throws off the conversion a bit.

[CRMcNeill]

Works for me. Plus, it's not like there are a lot of Space 5 ships floating around in the WEG material, so that's an easy fix.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[atgxtg]

Thanks. I am still working on a vehicle design system, so I've already gone over some of this ground. It gives me a head start with something like this pops up.

I believe that with the way ship are statted out, we could use my conversion method without actually changing anything. Streamlining and other considerations could easily account for the 6% drop in speed.

And if I reverse engineered KPH to SPACE and tweaked the formula slightly, I could get it so 850kph would fit into the SPACE 5 range.

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

And I thought I had too much time on my hands...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

You should see how much time i spend on one of my ADND sites.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[jmanski]

Garhkal, we all love you very much, but you have a problem....


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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[atgxtg]