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DougRed4
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 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: Question about Mon Calamari Shipyards |
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Over in 'Ships and Equipment' we've been discussing things about the Mon Calamari, specifically their huge ships. I've got a question about their massive shipyards, but didn't want to sidetrack that thread.
As my players are arriving at the world Mon Calamari about 1 BBY, what do you all think the state of the massive shipyards on that world should be? It's hard - with all of the various stuff out there - to come up with something extremely logical. I mean, if they had these massive shipyards in orbit, why wouldn't the Empire have sent an armada to wipe them out?
In my game, I've specified that the Mon Calamari have only recently joined the greater galactic community, and they have a Mon Cal Senator as part of the Imperial Senate (which we all know will be wiped out in about a year). I was thinking that they are very tenuously affiliated with the Empire, and there are rumblings of Rebellion on the planet.
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Question about Mon Calamari Shipyards |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | In my game, I've specified that the Mon Calamari have only recently joined the greater galactic community, and they have a Mon Cal Senator as part of the Imperial Senate (which we all know will be wiped out in about a year). I was thinking that they are very tenuously affiliated with the Empire, and there are rumblings of Rebellion on the planet. |
| DougRed4 wrote: | | As my players are arriving at the world Mon Calamari about 1 BBY, what do you all think the state of the massive shipyards on that world should be? It's hard - with all of the various stuff out there - to come up with something extremely logical. I mean, if they had these massive shipyards in orbit, why wouldn't the Empire have sent an armada to wipe them out? |
I love Dac!
The Empire used the shipyards for their own purposes. Afterall, it was the primary reason they invaded and subjugated the Mon Cals and Quarren. The Empire didn't attack them because they were viewed as a significant threat to the Empire or rebel conspirators. The Quarren were largely isolationist and the Mon Cals were generally pacifists. The Empire took control of Dac mainly just because they could and it might benefit them. Why would you destroy such a valuable resource when it might serve your own purpose? The two Calamarian species were enslaved and continued to work in their shipyards, but under the whip of the Empire.
However, it was never as successful as the Empire had hoped because Calamarian technologies were not so easily adaptable to Imperial technology. And then as you know, the Calamarians eventually rose up and retook control of Calamarian Space, and the shipyards were then reconverted to begin serving the Rebellion.
I hope this helps put it in perspective.
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Last edited by Whill on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: |
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The Rebel Alliance Sourcebook states that, as part of defending their space, all approaches to the planet were heavily mined, limiting traffic in and out to controlled routes. That may complicate how your characters get there...
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, both of you! I'll take a peek at the Rebel Sourcebook, too; I hadn't realized there was stuff in there about the planet.
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Bulldogzeta
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Location: Fox Valley, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I thank all for bringing up this subject. This had been kind of a grey area for me as well. While I have 1 campaign that's about a year or so after the destruction of the second Death Star, my other campaign is right before the Clone War right now. My second campaign will be getting to the rebellion someday and this is something that will prove useful.
I have a related question. I know that the Empire had enslaved the Calamari for a while. Does anyone have an idea at what point they rebelled and won their freedom? The best I can figure out is it happened some time after the Battle of Yavin and probably before the Empire Strikes Back time-frame.
Thanks.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be willing to say that the destruction of the first Death Star was the catalyst for open rebellion on Dac.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulldogzeta wrote: | | I have a related question. I know that the Empire had enslaved the Calamari for a while. Does anyone have an idea at what point they rebelled and won their freedom? The best I can figure out is it happened some time after the Battle of Yavin and probably before the Empire Strikes Back time-frame. |
The timeframe for the Imperial subjugation of Dac has never been precisely nailed down by canon. I had begun research of it and compiled some info from Nate Butler's massive Star Wars Timeline Gold, and here are some relevant excerpts...
| Quote: | 5 BBY
• The Empire attempts to make Mon Calamari part of the Empire. When the Calamari resist (passively), the Empire destroys three of their cities from orbit. The Calamari then obliterate the Imperial fleet, sparking a bitter war between the Calamari and the Empire.
(conjecture based on Galaxy Guide 4: Alien Races and The New Essential Guide to Characters)
• As the Empire occupies Mon Calamari (AKA Mon Cala AKA Dac), a handful of exploration cruisers escape. The Independence will eventually become the spacegoing capital of the Rebel Alliance after its founding. Meanwhile, ship designers who remain behind are not allowed to create warships, just luxury cruise liners for sale. They will secretly use these cruisers to test new weapon enhancements, such as pinpoint targeting computers on the Kuari Princess and a Class One hyperdrive on the Queen Amidala IV. They will also make certain that these “luxury liners” can easily be converted into warships when in rebel hands.
(conjecture based on The Essential Guide to Warfare)
• Ahleazah, a Mon Calamari female, is captured during the Empire’s initial occupation of Calamari, and is forced to work with the medical corps. The rest of her family was simply sold into slavery. She did her best to ease the suffering of her people, being moved from camp to camp in order to ensure she didn’t develop any relationships. When she saved the life of a minor Imperial Navy Officer, the grateful officer brought Ahleazah to his starship, where she was allowed to work with and learn from the advanced medical facilities on the ship. During her treatment of an Alliance pilot who was to undergo interrogation, Ahleazah decided that the time had come for her to act against the Empire that had destroyed her. She treated the pilot, then both of them got to an escape pod just as the Imperial ship was leaving the Anoat System. An Alliance convoy later rescued them, and Ahleazah served the Alliance – and later, the New Republic – as a medic and healer.*
(conjecture based on Heroes and Rogues via TimeTales, verbatim)*
*NOTE: This and other borrowed events regarding the subjugation of Mon Calamari have been moved from 4 BBY to 5 BBY due to new dating information given in The New Essential Guide to Characters.
• Gideon Tarkin is killed during the Erhynradd Massacre. His brother, Wilhuff Tarkin, learns of this at around the same time that he is taking the Mon Calamari named Gial Ackbar as his slave. To compensate for Gideon’s loss, Wilhuff offers Rivoche Tarkin, Gideon’s daughter, into his family estate on Eriadu.
(conjecture based on The New Essential Guide to Characters)
1 Year BBY - 51 Days BBY
• With the Imperial garrison on Dac destroyed, the Mon Calamari plan to refit luxury liners (that were specifically designed to be refit into war vessels) as military vessels for use against the Empire swings into action.
(conjecture based on The Essential Guide to Warfare) |
It was definitely before the Battle of Yavin, and the best guess for how much is a couple months before.
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I'd be willing to say that the destruction of the first Death Star was the catalyst for open rebellion on Dac. |
See above. However, according to the WEG adventure module Death in the Undercity the Calamarians did not join the Alliance Rebellion until after the Battle of Yavin, so the the destruction of Alderaan and the Death Star seems to have been catalyst for them joining the Alliance.
In my SWU, Grand Moff Tarkin was planning on using the Death Star to destroy Dac out of revenge for their insurrection, but the Death Star plans being recovered from the Rebels, making galactic statement out of Alderaan, and destroying the main Rebel base took precedence, so he never got a chance before the Death Star was destroyed (with Tarkin in it).
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Kytross
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | | Dac... They did side with the separatists during the clone wars. |
Dac itself did not side with the Separatists. There were factions within Calamarian society that supported the CIS (notably, the Quarren Isolation League and the Free Dac movement), and there was a brief civil war on Dac during the Clone Wars, but the Separatist-allied side lost. Within Calamarian Space, some Quarren colony worlds did side with the CIS. But Dac and Calamari Space as a whole were not Separatists.
According to The Essential Atlas, Calamari Space had minimal contact with the Republic for most of the 4100 years before the films. By the time of TPM, Calamari Space was considered an Allied Territory of the Republic and had honorary representation in the Senate (the Quarren senator seen in TMP). As a result of the scandal surrounding that Quarren senator's involvement in the Separatist movement (seen as a Separatist leader in AotC and RotS), the Mon Cals and Quarrens gained dual-representation of Calamari Space in the Republic Senate during the Clone Wars (the Mon Cal senator and the new Quarren senator seen in RotS). They were both Loyalist.
Both of those senators signed The Petition of 2000, which would have put them on Palpatine's hit list. But Calamari Space wasn't actually ever part of the Republic, so it wasn't automatically part of the new Empire. That and it's remoteness may have been why it could have been several years before the Empire subjugated Calamari Space.
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Panzerjedi
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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very Interestinting disscusion.....  We, Really, need to see more mon cal shipyards/industrial products, as well, in my mind, they are too neat "in universe" and "Technologicaly diferent" that they should be more igored there then say the incom or seinar,kuati, or CEC offerings. 
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Bulldogzeta
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Fantastic information!!! I look forward to anything else that you guys might dig up.
Thanks again! 
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hongxiquan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| how did they convert their shipyards into building warships within the year? Also how does that world have a gigantic shipyard? |
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| hongxiquan wrote: | | how did they convert their shipyards into building warships within the year? |
A few things. The Calamari shipyards were under the control of the Empire for years, so they were certainly putting out components of combat vessels before they overthrew Imperial control. And even though the Mon Calamari were a generally peaceful species, even their luxury liners had defensive capabilities so it is not like the Mon Cals had no weapons before the Empire came.
Also, it is extremely unlikely that the Calamarians wouldn't already have some warships to defend their territory before the Empire came. They didn't just have a single system - Dac was the capital of an entire region of space. They would have needed a basic starfleet of sorts, so they would already have the capabilities to make warships before the Empire even came. The fact that they began converting luxury liners to warships after they overthrew the Empire does not mean that they didn't already have warships before the Empire. Their starfleet was obviously no match for an Imperial invasion force, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any warships at all. Maybe crmcneill and I can retro-design a smaller MC80 predecessor they had before the Empire, like the MC70 perhaps?
I think a lot of the confusion among us WEG fans about Calamari comes from WEG's original description of the Mon Cals having a single planet and a few exploration vessels coming out of galactic seclusion and meeting the Empire who quickly subjugated them. In light of the prequels, that original background has been retconned away. In my opinion, the updated background is much more realistic and interesting, but to each his own.
| hongxiquan wrote: | | Also how does that world have a gigantic shipyard? |
You mean, if the planet was mostly an ocean, how could they have a lot of big shipyards? Although the Calamari did have floating cities and underwater cities, the shipyards were largely orbital.
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Panzerjedi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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yes i do recall now, like coreallia, Dac/Mon Calamari had most ship building in orbit (I can see some light vessels being built in the surface water bound citests on the planet least to, some, extent....) what do we know about mon can tech? We know they invented backup shields, their ships and machinery have any other multiple redundancy systems?
*Scractches Chin in thought and contemplation"
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely wonderful stuff! Thanks to all (especially Whill) for all of the wonderful background materials!
| Whill wrote: | 1 Year BBY - 51 Days BBY
• With the Imperial garrison on Dac destroyed, the Mon Calamari plan to refit luxury liners (that were specifically designed to be refit into war vessels) as military vessels for use against the Empire swings into action.
(conjecture based on The Essential Guide to Warfare) |
This makes me wonder what the 'background spark' was that caused the Imperial garrison to be destroyed? Also, since my players are headed to Dac at about this point in the timeline, what can they do to ignite said spark?
Rioht now the only adventure hook that is sending them to Dac/Mon Calamari is this:
- The planet Dac, which only recently joined the greater galactic community, is being subjugated by the Empire. The life of their Imperial Senator, Timi Rotramel, is now in danger (Calamari sector, Outer Rim, U-6)
[I'm not even certain where I got this basic idea from; I may have taken it from some plot seeds in the 1E Rulebook]
Feel free to throw out whatever other plot ideas you might have, and I'll see if I can incorporate them into my game!
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