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Barrataria
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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Location: Republic of California
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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Random_Axe wrote: | | IMHO, something as momentous as this shouldn't be reduced to a mere mechanic of spending CPs to get a new permanent buff that at is most basic form, merely allows you to accrue more Force Points in your pool, and possibly, maybe, perhaps, allows for the future option of being trained in Force powers by a guy who can teach them. I say it should become part of the story, part of the storytelling, part of the heroic tale. |
IAWTC, I'd be more likely to (gently) suggest the character be retired and a new one started, or added to the party with the original becoming a semi-NPC.
It just seems to me that characters either have force sensitivity, or they don't. We have plenty of examples in the EU of characters with innate force sensitivity, and I think the game models that adequately with the checkbox on the templates to be determined at character creation. Adding FS later reminds me too much of Gamma World games where people try to find stuff to mutate their characters. Fun, maybe, but not like the SW EU.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Jedi Master wrote: | | If you play well, you can get 20 CP after the first adventure. |
Woo! You play with some super CP liberal GMs! In the groups I've played with, 20CP would take somewhere around 8 sessions to rack up.
| Quote: | | If you play well, you can get 20 CP after the first adventure. |
Woo! You play with some super CP liberal GMs! In the groups I've played with, 20CP would take somewhere around 8 sessions to rack up.
| Quote: | | If I were to allow this, I would make it way more expensive--probably 100 points and up. I would also require a series of adventures to find some artifact or something that would do the trick (it would probably become the focus of the campaign for a while, actually). For the most part, though, I ignore this and say 'if you're not Force-sensitive when you start out, then you're not Force-sensitive.' |
I guess this makes sense in light of the fact that you can get 20CP in one game, but, again, my experience means that something costing 100CP is about a year's worth of gaming... for almost no real benefit, and incurring actual in-game penalties (beyond the lack of skill advancement, leaving you in the rest of the characters' dust).
| Quote: | | What do you think? Is it too cheap to turn into a Jedi? |
Nope. In addition to the 20CP to just become Force-Sensitive (which is NOT becoming a Jedi, it's just becoming Force-Sensitive), you still need to find teachers and spend CP to learn the Force Skills... which is a bit cheaper at 10CP for each first 1D in Control, Sense and Alter.
| Quote: | | Is there any Canon precedent for acquiring Force-sensitivity that I'm not aware of? How do you handle this in your campaigns? |
I can't recall any canon examples, though how would one determine whether or not they were there?? Very little in one's life experience would really change between being non-Force Sensitive and becoming Force Sensitive. The vast majority of Force-Sensitive beings in the galaxy have no idea that they are... they get odd feelings or premonitions, moments of deja vous, are perhaps a little more empathetic than others... they don't suddenly have Force Powers or anything. Really, someone becoming Force-Sensitive might look an awful lot like basic character growth.
This has come up in campaigns before, but not often. I've simply allowed it, as long as it makes some narrative sense; some life changing experience or what have you to trigger the onset of sensitivity.
Of course, becoming sensitive doesn't confer much bonus; they get a Force Point and the potential to learn Force Skills (if they can find a teacher willing to teach them... given that they even recognize that as a possibility... but that's a campaign unto itself). As a trade off they're also much more susceptible to character loss, as gaining Dark Side Points becomes monumentally easier once Force-Sensitivity becomes a thing for them. Depending on the circumstances they find themselves in (and let's face it, characters find themselves facing some dark choices a fair bit), this could be a pretty severe.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10530
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Force Sensitivity After Character Creation--Or, ONLY 20 |
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Hey Ank!
| The Jedi Master wrote: | The following is taken directly from the Second Edition, Revised and Expanded (Page 36). The exclamation point is mine, of course:
A character who is not Force-sensitive may choose to become Force-sensitive for 20 (!) Character Points. (There is no training time requirement.)
When I first read this, I had no clue what to think. If you play well, you can get 20 CP after the first adventure. Supposedly, it's easier to start Force-sensitive (which I'll grant--you don't start with any skills this way, after all), but game-balance isn't the only problem. As far as I know, there is no Canon precedent, EU or film, for a non-Force user to become a Force user later in life. It just breaks the rules of the universe...
What do you think? Is it too cheap to turn into a Jedi? Is there any Canon precedent for acquiring Force-sensitivity that I'm not aware of? How do you handle this in your campaigns? |
I'm trying to remember and I can only think of one PC that we made Force sensitive after play began. That was in the 90s before the prequels, and I think we just said he one day realized his Force sensitivity and he began to be trained in Force abilities. That PC eventually turned to the Dark Side and I never played with that player again, so it probably was a bad idea for me to allow that. 
| Quote: | | The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. |
Even completely disregarding the prequels, the classic trilogy clearly established a genetic basis for Force sensitivity. So that would seem to indicate that you are either born with Force sensitivity or not, and that would suggest a player must decide at character creation and not be able to add it later, for any cost.
IMO the non-obligatory inconsequential level of detail that the <M-word> bring into the SW galaxy actually support possibly being able to add Force sensitivity to a character after play begins. If the player and GM decide to make the PC Force sensitive, the increased numbers of <M-word> needed to make someone Force sensitivity could be said to have always been in a character's body and lying dormant his whole life until activated by some external force (determined by GM plot design).
I don't think I would do that in my game, but if that works for you, then great. The next time I run Force sensitive characters, I want Force sensitivity to be an attribute. Non-Force sensitives have 0D, and Force sensitives have 1D or more. I don't allow attributes to be raised during play, so I think I'll just be sticking with you either are or aren't Force sensitive from birth.
| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | Typically, I see it not as someone becoming Force-sensitive... but discovering, like Luke and Leia, that you were all along and didn't know it. |
In my SWU, Luke and Leia were Force sensitive from birth, even though they didn't realize it. A Jedi that went into hiding after Order 66 ended up on Alderaan for a while when Leia was very young and became a guardian mentor of sorts. With Bail's permission, the Jedi privately trained Leia in some basic resistance to Force powers and hiding her presence in the Force (to protect her from Dark Siders). The primarily defensive training could have been so ingrained from an early age that it may have become instinctive so she may not have even had to consciously been aware of her using it. But they were still careful to not ever refer to the Force or Jedi around Leia in hopes of her not ever accidentally revealing her training. Leia probably wouldn't even realize that it was Force training per se, and may have just thought it was some private mental conditioning some young rich nobel children received (but never talked about). The Jedi may have even altered Leia's memories afterwards to make her consciously forget him and the training, but the instinctive abilities remained intact.
I think this goes along with the idea of children being easier to train in the Force due to having a less developed ego and secular worldview to unlearn. In my SWU, this explains why Palpatine never discovered Leia's Force sensitivity in the Senate, and why Leia could be on the Tantive IV, the Death Star and Cloud City with Vader and yet still keep her Force sensitivity hidden from him. This could also explain why Leia herself thought she didn't have and could never have Luke's power. And maybe Leia's early special secret training also had unintentional side effects like Leia later seeming to remember images and feelings of her mother when Luke couldn't (although there are other possible explanations for that as well).
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Force Sensitivity After Character Creation--Or, ONLY 20 |
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Hey man  Good to see you folks again.
| Whill wrote: | | The next time I run Force sensitive characters, I want Force sensitivity to be an attribute. Non-Force sensitives have 0D, and Force sensitives have 1D or more. I don't allow attributes to be raised during play, so I think I'll just be sticking with you either are or aren't Force sensitive from birth. |
I've worked on this sort of mechanic, though it still allows gaining Force Sensitivity later in game (at the same cost as normal)
http://s6.zetaboards.com/Hotaru_no_Hishou/single/?p=207975&t=1224989
Even though I wrote that back in 2007, I haven't had much opportunity to really playtest it... I still think it'll work well, though 
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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | The Jedi Master wrote: | | If you play well, you can get 20 CP after the first adventure. |
Woo! You play with some super CP liberal GMs! In the groups I've played with, 20CP would take somewhere around 8 sessions to rack up. |
I don't think a GM giving 20 CP would be "super liberal". A bit on the high side, perhaps, but not by that much. I run things exactly as spelled out in the RAW, and my characters usually get 15 CP per adventure (which by definition should be about every two sessions).
| Whill wrote: | | But they were still careful to not ever refer to the Force or Jedi around Leia in hopes of her not ever accidentally revealing her training. |
That's an interesting way of explaining why Vader didn't sense the Force sensitivity in Leia. I find it far easier just to rationalize that her Force sensitivity was more 'dormant', being as she hadn't really ever done anything with it. But as to your quote above, it appears from the OT that "May the Force be with you" was a common phrase used by the Rebels, of which Leia was an integral part. So it might have been tough to "not refer to the Force" around her.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: |
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I only meant that the Force was not referred to in relation to Leia's conditioning/training. "May the Force be with you" and other expressions referring to the Force could have been common usage, but "Force training" is not something that they would ever want anyone to connect with Leia.
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