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Lane Arroway
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Taris, Outer Rim
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 Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Id like to also point out that, despite all his options, Luke Skywalker carried a blaster pistol rather than a heavy for most of his trilogy career. Mara Jade specializes in hold-out blaster. Some of the most heroic and nefarious characters we love and hate use less optimal weapons than we might as players.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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As far as the low damage, that can be offset by including one of the optional damage rules from RoE. Sure, the Hold-Out doesn't inflict a lot of damage comparatively speaking, but the optional rules allow the character to enhance the damage inflicted by how accurately he places his shots...
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vulture811
Ensign
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| its the qucikfire-4, from Gundark’s Fantastic Technology (page 25), its a sweet piece for a hold out. |
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vulture811
Ensign
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| on a side note, almost every situation i have used a hold out blaster in, almost never had to actually fire it. the first thought in someones head when a gun might shoot them in the groin is not "well its only 3d." |
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Bobmalooga
Commander
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 367
Location: The south...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
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The only time that I have ever really used the hold out blasters in my games was with gunslinger like western type characters. I personally have played 2 like that and if memory serves 3D+1 damage for the hold outs was what the gm gave me, I also had two mini holdouts (if you can imagine such a thing...) that had 2 shots and were hid on spring loaded on wrist mounts in the event the 'big guns' went dry, they did 2D damage. (Basically a derringer)
This is what I have on my main character's sheet...2 Hold-out Blasters (3D+1 Damage,3-4/8/12,ammo:6), 2 Mini-Hold-out Blasters (2D, 1/3/--, ammo:2)
Hey, it's all about role playing...not Roll Playing. if you have an npc fighting a player and they pull the pistol and the player laughs saying, well it's only 3D then have the npc add 2 character points to damage and see how much the player is laughing then...I've been known to do that too...LOL
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Once had a character with a bang stick, though it was a one-shot blaster rather than a shotgun. Gave it 4D+2 damage, a size comparable to a medium MagLite, and a Melee skill. When the bang stick came out, it meant that somebody were getting hurt. Might be an unusual alternative to a hold-out blaster. |
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hold-out blaster's low damage always bothered me. We have concealable firearms that fire the same cartridge as larger framed pistols. The draw back were less ammo capacity, more recoil, and were less accurate. Personally I would allow a 4D damage hold-out blaster with a capacity of 10 shots and ranges 0/3/8.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14254
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Going by Gry's complete weapons collection, there are some rather good damage hold outs.
The Jer'N be' milad microwave stunner is a 4d stun blaster, same as the Merr-sonn Q-4.
The Sorosuub Q-2 and Q-2s5 are at 3d+2.
And you can always use the rules for improving weapons to crank that up!
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Theodrim
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | As far as the low damage, that can be offset by including one of the optional damage rules from RoE. Sure, the Hold-Out doesn't inflict a lot of damage comparatively speaking, but the optional rules allow the character to enhance the damage inflicted by how accurately he places his shots... |
There are also the called-shot rules in the corebook (higher difficulty, circumventing armor when applicable, and extra dice in damage). Being able to quick draw hold-out blasters -- thereby potentially negating a target's dodge roll -- come in handy as well. Heck, in the first game of my current campaign one of the PC's had a hold-out blaster. She blew the arm off and incapacitated an Inquisitor with it. It took a called shot and a Force point, but it did the trick just fine.
It's not the dice code of the weapon, it's how you use it. As a player, one of my characters would ruin people's days with a lightfoil (and that's a 3D damage weapon). |
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Kytross
Line Captain
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Consider the campaign type. I'm starting my pirate campaign this month. A hold-out could be useful for an irregular fighter, and will definitely be something to contend with from their prey. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14254
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Theodrim wrote: | | Being able to quick draw hold-out blasters -- thereby potentially negating a target's dodge roll -- come in handy as well. |
Since dodge is reactive and can be declared any time, unless someone got surprised (opposed sneak vs search), how would quick draw negate their dodge?
Or do you run it where if someone wins on a quickdraw rule, they can make a 'surprise' attack'?
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4855
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: |
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The Corporate Sector Sourcebook has an optional rule on quick draw for a gunslinger showdown scenario. You split your blaster dice between speed to draw and accuracy to fire. That is to say, if I had 7D, I could spend 3D to roll a higher draw, and 4D for accuracy.
There's nothing to say that you can or cannot dodge in that scenario, but I guess the majority of the attention is on getting the shot off rather than dodging.
*shrug*
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | Hold-out blaster's low damage always bothered me. We have concealable firearms that fire the same cartridge as larger framed pistols. The draw back were less ammo capacity, more recoil, and were less accurate. Personally I would allow a 4D damage hold-out blaster with a capacity of 10 shots and ranges 0/3/8. |
Yes, but in the real world a "hold out" version firing the same cartridge as a larger pistol would do less damage. Each bullet has an optimum barrel length for it to reach the desired velocity. A shorter barrel means a slower bullet and less damage. Not much less though. About a pip or two in most cases.
Most hold out pistols tend to firing low caliber (22-.32) ammo too. But there are weapons like the C.O.P. 357 which holds 4 .357 Magnum rounds.
I think the damage enhancing options from Spec Forces are practically a necessity if you want hold out blasters to be effective in the RPG.
I know there was one hold out somewhere that did 3D+2 or so. One of my characters carries it and has had the damage augmented.
I had considered a option of trading off ammo capacity for damage. Maybe using the combined fire rules as a baseline, or just the doubling progression (2 charges = +1D, 4 charges +2D and so on). |
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Theodrim
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Theodrim wrote: | | Being able to quick draw hold-out blasters -- thereby potentially negating a target's dodge roll -- come in handy as well. |
Since dodge is reactive and can be declared any time, unless someone got surprised (opposed sneak vs search), how would quick draw negate their dodge?
Or do you run it where if someone wins on a quickdraw rule, they can make a 'surprise' attack'? |
I'm not talking about a Western-style duel or anything, but surprise attacks themselves for which hold-out blasters, for lack of a better way of saying this, have a wider range of possibilities for staging a surprise attack (and quick drawing is necessarily a part of that).
| Quote: | Yes, but in the real world a "hold out" version firing the same cartridge as a larger pistol would do less damage. Each bullet has an optimum barrel length for it to reach the desired velocity. A shorter barrel means a slower bullet and less damage. Not much less though. About a pip or two in most cases.
Most hold out pistols tend to firing low caliber (22-.32) ammo too. But there are weapons like the C.O.P. 357 which holds 4 .357 Magnum rounds. |
In the real world ballistic characteristics and shot placement are a lot more important than caliber. That whole "one-shot stop" thing gun nuts go on about is generally a load of crap. A poorly-placed .45ACP can easily go through-and-through without hitting vitals or leaving much of a wound channel at all, while a well-placed .22LR will go through multiple vitals and tumble in the target to create a very nasty wound profile. That's precisely why pocket pistols/deringers/saturday night specials/whatever you want to call them can be so dangerous -- low muzzle velocity, low spin, generally shot at point-blank usually mean unpredictable and catastrophic wound channels. It's not the best comparison in the world to draw to Star Wars, especially when blaster bolts cauterize wounds as a matter of course, and one can simply slap some bacta on wounds which in the real world would be fatal in a matter of minutes without immediate, professional medical attention. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Theodrim wrote: |
In the real world ballistic characteristics and shot placement are a lot more important than caliber. That whole "one-shot stop" thing gun nuts go on about is generally a load of crap. A poorly-placed .45ACP can easily go through-and-through without hitting vitals or leaving much of a wound channel at all, while a well-placed .22LR will go through multiple vitals and tumble in the target to create a very nasty wound profile. That's precisely why pocket pistols/deringers/saturday night specials/whatever you want to call them can be so dangerous -- low muzzle velocity, low spin, generally shot at point-blank usually mean unpredictable and catastrophic wound channels. It's not the best comparison in the world to draw to Star Wars, especially when blaster bolts cauterize wounds as a matter of course, and one can simply slap some bacta on wounds which in the real world would be fatal in a matter of minutes without immediate, professional medical attention. |
YUp. Couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, most RPGs tend to make the damage potential a function of the weapon- or at least make it the overwhelming factor. There are only a handful than don't.
Realistically, just about ANY weapon has the potential to kill ANY person with a single attack. How probable such an outcome would be depends on circumstances and skill. |
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