Hold out Blasters

[vulture811]

Hi everyone, I was just talking to my Gm the other night about hold
out blasters, and i wanted to know what everyone here at the Pit thinks.
I just want to know if you use them, why, and how effective does
everyone think they are in general.

[garhkal]

It is rare for me to see PCs of any sort carry them due to their low damage, range and general poorness in comparison to regular blaster pistols.
Perhaps if more gave say bonuses to hide rolls for them you might see an uptick in them being taken.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Zarm R'keeg]

Almost had a new player take one at creation last night- but in the end, the concealability wasn't enough to compensate for the low damage. Generally, I relegate this (like a sporting blaster) to an 'Awwww, isn't it cute that they included it? Well, I guess it's good to be thorough...' status; no one would take it by choice when it's a challenge to even kill stormtroopers with it.
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Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[Lane Arroway]

It's hard to take a step back from the mechanics and the stats and really look at the hold-out blaster. As an amateur gun enthusiast I really like the hold-out blaster. Its small, easy to conceal and can come very handy in tight spots.
Now, in real life, if a person held up a cashier with a small pistol the cashier wouldn't just laugh and say, "hah, that only does 3D!" Why should this be the reaction of our pcs or npcs?
Now, in the game, yes the damage is low and most often than not our pcs just laugh at them. As a player, I find them to be a usefull second backup. (The first being a blaster pistol)
The setting I'm currently playing in is The Dark Times with a noir theme. I expect and welcome many hold out blasters used by me and against me.
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"This job is 90% talking to people and 10% shooting at them."

[Zarm R'keeg]

[Ral_Brelt]

But that's just it...these aren't front line soldiers. Rebels are farm boys, nobles in exile, kids, spacers. My Duros has a holdout and a knife as his combat equipment... he doesn't even wear armor and has a 2d str. People may scoff and say 'he won't survive a fight', but he has. He's not a combat monkey, he's a ships mate...he fights, gets shot...hell, he even lost an arm. Star Wars isn't all combat, its about the characters....I make choices on my chars based on who they are, not on how I want them to surpass combat challenges.

[DougRed4]

I agree with Lane's point, and dislike when some firearms are too weak to threaten a regular civilian (in real life, most people are quite frightened by even a very small gun).

I've also seen these used in my game (by a sneaky PC who would conceal it).
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[Zarm R'keeg]

I guess we disagree on that, Ral... to me, Rebels are farmboys, nobles in exiles, kids, spacers... that have BECOME frontline soldier by joining the Rebellion. Just because that's where they came from doesn't change what they are now- what they become by joining the rebellion. They're freedom fighters, and freedom fighters generally expect to fight. And for anyone that knows or is intentional about what they're doing, a hold-out doesn't really fit well with the mission goal of fighting the Empire, as it is outclassed by most Imperial armor (including the ground troops who Rebels are most likely to encounter against).

I agree that it's about character- but that's my point. I think it's in the character of most Rebels (not all, but most) to choose a weapon with some punch. It seems logical to me that any Rebel's character would involve being able to effectively use a weapon against the most likely adversaries that they are likely to fight in their stated and specific goal of engaging or overthrowing the Empire.

If they don't know anything about anything, or intend to go around threatening civilians or imperial officers only, fine, it might be in their nature to say "Yeah, this works." Or a myriad of personal issues (like valuing concealment) could lead some PCs to this choice; I don't mean to imply that it isn't a valid one. Just not a common one- and I think that's supported by characterization, rather than in spite of it. I would think for the average/majority of Rebels, it is illogical to carry a weapon that is unlikely to actually hurt the statistically most common individuals they're going to have to use it against.
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Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[garhkal]

Another way to up their usefulness is to make more restrictive planetary laws in regards to what weapons can be brought down to the planet that the PCs need to go to.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[vulture811]

and just remember at least one does 4d damage base, thats dangerous enough to kill most people even a stormie, besides nothing stops you from making called shots with them to. I have used one in more then a few situations, and
almost never had to actualy fire the thing. Heck I think I only actualy killed a
battle droid, but id did groin shot one guy i think.

[Ral_Brelt]

The difference as I see it is this. The average Rebel volunteer/conscript/wrong place-right time adventurer isn't part of an elite unit as they begin their adventuring career. The average Stormtrooper is a member of an elite unit.

Our boys in white aren't the typical grunt trooper...hence having better armor and weapons. The typical grunt would be an Imperial Army Trooper, far less armor, far less punch to their gun. The Rebels are also strapped for cash/material, etc...they aren't just handing out heavy blasters and carbines like The Giving Tree. In the Imperial galaxy, there are weapon restrictions in place...such items that have that extra punch are restricted, or flat out outlawed for civvie hands. So, building on the farm kid idea becoming a rebel hero...in character..why would he have in his possession such an item as compared to a holdout blaster?

I'm not trampling on your fun...I'm just basing my view of the holdout on in game reasons...for meta, of course you don't take it...its short range, little punch, and generally not worth its weight in a blaster fight. The same could be said of slugthrowers in most cases, unless you're using a Dissuader.But for me, Star Wars has never been about the 'oh this is bigger, better, shinier' gear...not like D&D where you need to curve up with gear to match the curve of the nasties...this is Star Wars, where you don't need anything more than the blaster at your side and the friends at your back to take on the evil empire..

[garhkal]

Try telling some players that it's not all about the shinnies' and see how bent out of shape they get.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Ral_Brelt]

Easier than people think..

PC loots 4th stormtrooper so they can have the armor, blaster rifle, etc

As GM, I say...okay...-3d on all Dex skills...they ask why, I list off their loot scroll and explain the weight, etc.

Or if its a blaster that does one more pip of damage and they discard theirs...pause the game and explain this isn't D&D, ask them how many times they saw the party grab for new gear just because...not for plot purpose or for lack of any gear of their own...then ask them if they're interested in heroic play, or monty haul...if they say the latter, I kindly ask them to leave my table as its not a monty haul game.

I've done it, and it works just fine...player didn't leave, he rearranged his thinking for the scene and had a blast the rest of the campaign.

[cheshire]

There was a group I GMed and they had all just finished playing KotOR. I had to do a lot of explaining in terms of why this wasn't going to be a "shoot 'n' loot" game.

In terms of hold outs, yeah, they can be useful. I had the players in a few situations where they had their weapons taken. The one guy with the holdout was doing the shooting. It wasn't much, but it was enough to make a difference in the fight.

Heh, the first time he used it, he had a case of exploding sixes. He did 36 points of damage on the shot. The character didn't really want to stick the blaster in his pants after that.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Zarm R'keeg]

Well, that might be a key difference, Ral... I *do* see stormtroopers as the typical imperial grunt trooper and most common adversary. (And yeah, I agree that carbines and HBPs aren't common- but standard 4D blaster pistols would be; that's what every trooper on the blockade runner had, and I think what most of the Endor strike team had. So to me, it is more standard equipment).

So, I think we're both basing our positions on in-game reasons... just seeing the way the in-game universe works a little differently.

Vulture - there's a 4d hold-out blaster? Must've missed that one. Well, that would eliminate all of my arguments.
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Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!