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Crossovers: Do's and Donts (discuss)
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobmalooga wrote:
I did once make a Dalek into a Medical droid...


In another reality, which was compositec reality, Ive saved a Dalek mutant, put it in a life support jar and attached it to an Astromech body.

He was suffering from a techno-organic virus, and had to lose his Dalek casing.
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aegisflashfire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's FINE but the the existence of all those things from the who-verse, and all the fantastical powers that come along with it makes it very hard for your players to solve in game mysteries.


Example: they are chasing some imperial they want to capture. He rounds the corner ahead of them but when they get there, he gone.


In a Star Wars only universe, he either hid nearby, used the Force to cloud their minds or was vaporized or has a cloaking device. Pretty much the only options.

In a Star Wars+ Whoverse your players must face the possibility that he could have been hit by a Weeping Angel, has a perception filter, dissolved like an Almost-People, spirited away by the various transmat devices, jumped to a new time/space with a Vortex manipulator, been sniped by a Dalek, stepped into another time stream, climbed into a TARDIS, or any of a hundred other possibilities.
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aegisflashfire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
aegisflashfire wrote:
Unfortunately the existence of the timelord includes the existence of EVERYTHING else from that universe. Even if they're never seen 'on screen' in your campaign, the introduction of this character contains within it the implicit existence of everything else from that fictional universe.

Where is this rule written down? If willg wishes, he can do a partial crossover or simply mine the Whoniverse for ideas rather than transplanting it in toto.


Everything has to come from somewhere. If there is a timelord, in order to BE a timelord he has to be from Gallifrey. In order have a TARDIS you have to be able to make it bigger on the inside, and have a Time Vortex and etc...


Again, just reskin it as something else. Make it a time traveler who's time machine is a box. Just don't call it a Time Lord and a TARDIS and you don't run into that problem.
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
aegisflashfire wrote:
Unfortunately the existence of the timelord includes the existence of EVERYTHING else from that universe. Even if they're never seen 'on screen' in your campaign, the introduction of this character contains within it the implicit existence of everything else from that fictional universe.

Where is this rule written down? If willg wishes, he can do a partial crossover or simply mine the Whoniverse for ideas rather than transplanting it in toto.


Sir Walter Raliegh is said to have brought Potatoes to Britain
So at the time, those potatoes were the only potatoes in the country.

I see no difference.

The other Whoniverse stuff exists in the Whoniverse.

This guy and his ship alone have been transplanted.

And we acknowledge the other universe exists...but only as a point of origin.
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aegisflashfire wrote:
That's FINE but the the existence of all those things from the who-verse, and all the fantastical powers that come along with it makes it very hard for your players to solve in game mysteries.


Example: they are chasing some imperial they want to capture. He rounds the corner ahead of them but when they get there, he gone.


In a Star Wars only universe, he either hid nearby, used the Force to cloud their minds or was vaporized or has a cloaking device. Pretty much the only options.

In a Star Wars+ Whoverse your players must face the possibility that he could have been hit by a Weeping Angel, has a perception filter, dissolved like an Almost-People, spirited away by the various transmat devices, jumped to a new time/space with a Vortex manipulator, been sniped by a Dalek, stepped into another time stream, climbed into a TARDIS, or any of a hundred other possibilities.


NO! Its the SWU, and SWU only rules apply.
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aegisflashfire wrote:
crmcneill wrote:
aegisflashfire wrote:
Unfortunately the existence of the timelord includes the existence of EVERYTHING else from that universe. Even if they're never seen 'on screen' in your campaign, the introduction of this character contains within it the implicit existence of everything else from that fictional universe.

Where is this rule written down? If willg wishes, he can do a partial crossover or simply mine the Whoniverse for ideas rather than transplanting it in toto.


Everything has to come from somewhere. If there is a timelord, in order to BE a timelord he has to be from Gallifrey. In order have a TARDIS you have to be able to make it bigger on the inside, and have a Time Vortex and etc...


Again, just reskin it as something else. Make it a time traveler who's time machine is a box. Just don't call it a Time Lord and a TARDIS and you don't run into that problem.


I SUGGESTED THAT THREE PAGES AGO! Dont you read what I said?
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aegisflashfire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

willg wrote:
I SUGGESTED THAT THREE PAGES AGO! Dont you read what I said?


Actually you mentioned it but dismissed it as "ridiculous"

willg wrote:

So...your saying I can CREATE a species with those attributes I want on my character...so , in theory I could create a species VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL to the Time Lords, except call them Chrono monks or something, just to get past people who dont like crossovers.

Seems a ridiculous premise, when all I wanted was one guy and a broken down TARDIS.



Aegisflashfire wrote:
Its a start, yup. Because then you've not broken your universe. .. <SNIP>

But SPECIFICALLY adding a Timelord doesn't just add a Timelord.


One of us is NOT reading, and I'm pretty sure I AM.


Enough of this I'm done. You asked for advice on crossovers. I've written several posts on the subject not even specifically aimed at Dr. Who but on crossovers as a whole. I've given my reasons why I don't think crossovers in general are a good idea, but I've also given specific reasons why I think some crossovers work better than others. I don't even think my posts were read, dismissed as 'articles'

I'm happy to discuss crossovers in general, kinda done with the Who-verse crossover specific discussion.
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

willg wrote:


Or hows about this, we' ll say he come from another universe, he travels in a ship thats bigger on the inside, he has two hearts and if he dies, he can change his body as a side effect of the healing process. But we wont call him a Time Lord, Gallifreyan or call his ship a TARDIS, because those words mean nothing in SWU. And the ship doesnt work well. No one would have to go into it, they can think its a one man escape pod ship or something.

'a Rose by any other name'...


I was actually referring to this...and creating a whole species as a workaround DID seem ridiculous at the time....

Do you recall DC comics had an injunction put on them, to not be able use the Superboy name?

They got around it, just called him Kon El.

What if we did the same here?
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its funny , you seem ready to throw in the towel when we are actually reaching middle ground.

Did you check out the D6 Doctor Who links?

What would you consider importing/ dumping?

The skills translation could be fiddly.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why you are so vehement about this; no one is forcing you to include this crossover in your game, and the SWU isn't going to collapse on itself if someone you only know through the internet uses the word "Time Lord" or "TARDIS" in a game.
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willg
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate Aegisflashfires opinion, belive it or not, even though I dont share it

But heres what I suggest, and ironically it fits in with Doctor Who itself.

The TARDIS was originally just the Ship at the start in 1963

Another one of the Doctors people, 1965

Regeneration, 1966
The name Time lord didnt come up till 1969

Two hearts, 1970

Gallifrey, unamed till 1974 I

wipe out the Who reference

So I have

Character name
Species Unknown humanoid

His vessel, Type 27 Timetravel capsule.
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willg
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn came up with this, I just had to share it guys.

I hope you approve Aegisflasfire.

The Gollyfree were a haughty race with unique insights into the Force, which they called the Chronostream. Ancient to the extreme, they were contemporary to the Gree. The Gollyfree witnessed the rise of the Kwa. They studied the Kwa Infinity Gates, and judged them inferior to their own Transchronical and Spatial Device, the Traspade. And in their hubris, their most powerful Chronostream adepts named themselves Chronomasters.

The Chronomasters watched as the Gree fell into obscurity, long before the Columi even could add integers without a cheat sheet for stick tallying. They perused when the Kwa spread through their Infinity Gates, ultimately reaching the Rakata and uplifting them as their benefactors. And when the Kwa fell by the wayside to the Rakatan Infinite Empire, the Chronomasters silently gloated, for it proceeded exactly as they had foreseen.

Secure in their superiority, the Chronomasters started meddling. They attracted the attention of others best left in the dark. Suddenly, the Chronomasters found themselves under two-pronged attack - The Abominor and the Charon, one in normal space, the other in Otherspace.

In a fell swoop, the Chronomasters implemented their greatest Chronostream manipulation - they made it so that their manipulation in the Chronostream never happened. But the temporal backlash also all but erased their own existence, the Chronostream taking new and unpredictable ways, resisting any attempt at reigning it in again after the catastrophic meddling had caused their own existence to be revised.

Today, only a few Gollyfree roam the universe in their Traspades, all of them accomplished Chronomasters, only two or three at a time in the same Galaxy. Yet they fear to meddle further in the Chronostream, forever clinging to their own tenuous existence, hoping to find a new pivotal temporal moment, rotating the Gollyfree into existence once again. They have, after all, all the time in the spacetime continuum to undo their mistake...

Gollyfree:
Attribute dice: 14D
DEX 1D+2 / 4D
KNO 3D / 5D+2
PRE 2D / 5D
STR 2D / 4D
MEC 2D / 4D
TEC 2D / 4D+2
Move: 9 / 12

Story Factors:
Obscure: No Gollyfree, and in particular no Chronomasters, are known in the larger Galaxy. They are obscure in the extreme, and prefer it that way.

Timespider in the Parlor: Gollyfree Chronomasters may enable others to act, giving information to lead others into dangerous but ultimately pivotal situations. They will rarely act themselves, preferring to stay anonymous or unknown at all times.

Unique Technology: No Chronomaster will willingly part with Gollyfree technology. This includes the Traspade, and their Sonic Shovel - a Gollyfree signature item that looks like a small entrenching tool, but in fact is a multitool for almost any TEC roll conceivable.

Special Abilities:
Deferred Senescence: All Gollyfree can stave off a year's aging, either through a Moderate PRE roll, or a Moderate Chronobending roll. Subsequent rolls have the same difficulty, but each actual year can only be deferred once.

Regeneration: If a Gollyfree is killed, as long as the body is not totally obliterated, they can be revived through spending a Force Point. This revival takes place at the GM's discretion. At the time of a regeneration, a Gollyfree Chronomaster can reassign up to 7D worth of Skills, as well as change apparent gender, apparent age, and general appearance (skin tone, hair style, and so on).

Twin Hearts: A Gollyfreeian has two hearts. This allows them to always roll twice on any roll related to physical exertion (swimming, jumping, climbing, Stamina), taking the better of the two results.

Cool Customer: A Gollifreeian has an uncommonly cold body temperature, usually reading at about ambient (room) temperature. This may or may not become significant, but is usually more than enough to play havoc with infrared tracking systems, the heat sense of animals, and so on.

Signature items:
Sonic Shovel / Laser Shovel: A moderately sized implement, the Sonic Shovel's primary apparent function is as an ultrasound-enhanced shovel, dramatically increasing its utility as a digging tool. If wielded in combat, the Sonic Shovel is only moderately effective, functionally identical to a Vibroblade. The more dramatically named Laser Shovel is somewhat larger, and is the equivalent of a Vibrosword but is largely out of favor with the Chronomasters. Powered by Chronostream energy, the Sonic Shovel (and Laser Shovel) have a virtually unlimited operation time.

The Sonic Shovel (and Laser Shovel) is however also a marvel of Gollyfreeian miniaturization and adaptive nanoquantumtech. It can be reconfigured into any conceivable tool needed for any one TEC roll, as long as said tool can be wielded two-handed by a Gollyfreeian Chronomaster. (It is for instance unlikely that a tool needed for a Death Star class reactor is this size, but for almost anything that is not Capital scale or bigger, the Sonic Shovel should suffice.)

Traspade: A phone booth-size personal conveyance, the Traspade can travel virtually anywhere almost instantly. Much larger on the inside than on the outside, the Traspade is a marvel of Chronostream spacetime bending. In operation, the Traspade will tend to glow blue (Cherenkov radiation), as well as make a sound that can be likened to that of a dying Kowakian Monkey-Lizard.

A Chronomaster will tend to camouflage the Traspade as part of a larger device in order to hide its true nature, for instance as a part of the engine bay of an otherwise unremarkable space transport or light freighter.

Connected in this way, the Traspade can function as a hyperdrive with any desired multiplier above zero, and can imbue a Space rating of up to the Chronomaster's rating in full dice in Chronobending (so a Chronomaster with 12D+2 in Chronobending can utilize a Traspade to give a Space rating up to 12 to any ship, whereas a Chronomaster with a Chronobending of only 8D can only give a Space rating of 8 ). The Traspade on its own (not connected to a larger structure) can use any Space rating up to 50. A Traspade can be used to make a defensive screen around itself or a larger object it is a part of, effectively granting a Shield rating of appropriate scale equal to the controlling Chronomaster's Chronoscrying dice pool.

A Traspade is powered by the Chronostream of a dying multiverse, and has functionally unlimited power. It can store up to 10 metric tons, as long as each item can fit through a door that is 1.5m (wide) by 2.5m (tall).

Chronomastery:
The Gollyfreeian Chronomastery is split into three dice pools: Chronobending, Chronoscry, and Chronometricity. These function similarly to the Force's Alter, Sense and Control.

Chronobending: Chronobending is used to functionally change the Chronostream in a locale, changing the rate of time or past, present and future actions in that locale. This includes changing parameters that can be affected through Chronometricity, in effect mimicking the effects of Projected Telepathy, Affect Mind, and other similar Force abilities.

Chronoscrying: Chronoscrying is used to observe a locale's Chronostream, allowing the Chronomaster access to past, present and future information for that locale.

Chronometricity: Chronometricity is used to enforce the regularity of the Chronostream, removing fluctuations in any rhythm or entropical process. Chronometricity can be used to, for instance, make sure that a radioactive isotope breaks down in a specific sequence, that the heart of someone in cardiac arrest starts beating regularly, or that the abnormal brain activity of a person in a seizure is normalized (thereby ending the seizure). Chronometricity can also ensure that a coin flip follows a (predetermined) pattern, for instance three heads and three tails for the next thirty-three coin flips.

Naturally, most Chronomasters only get invited to a high stakes Pazaak or Sabacc game once per regeneration.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

.


Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bobmalooga
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iskalloni.....hmmmmmm
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willg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To develop on Zarns idea for the Traspade, the idea occured to me , Traspades are partially organically grown, therefore they can utilise Force enegy, scince the Chronomasters time abilities were Force related anyway...

Thoughts?
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