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lurker
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 Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: Force point ???? |
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As I’ve admitted before, back in the day I didn’t have much to any experience playing force users. But, I was thinking today about the old games. If I remember right the GM gave a bonus for force users having force points. Something like a +1 per force point on any roll dealing with the force.
Was that a real by the book rule, or was it a house rule? If it was house ruled, was it a good rule?
Heck, I may be completely off on it and miss remembering it …
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Dromdarr_Alark
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I like this rule regardless! It gives a bonus for being good, but not as big a bonus as a dark side point.
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I've never heard of this rule, pretty sure it's not RAW.
I would stay away from it, personally. It doesn't just give a bonus for being "good," it gives a bonus to anybody with Force points. Force users don't really need any more help. This rule is a "rich get richer" sort of thing, IMO.  |
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Dromdarr_Alark
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Any light side force user in my game is remarkably weak, so this let's them actually activate force powers without spending loads of character points.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | I've never heard of this rule, pretty sure it's not RAW.
I would stay away from it, personally. It doesn't just give a bonus for being "good," it gives a bonus to anybody with Force points. Force users don't really need any more help. This rule is a "rich get richer" sort of thing, IMO. |
Yup/ The RAW is that for ever dark side point you possess but are not yet turned, you CAN gain (player's choice) 1D to any force skill activation rolls. BUT if you accept the dark side's offer, you must have pure intent to use it or risk gaining another DSP. Or you can decline the offer, but your activation of force powers are at a higher difficulty.
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lurker
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | nuclearwookiee wrote: | I've never heard of this rule, pretty sure it's not RAW.
I would stay away from it, personally. It doesn't just give a bonus for being "good," it gives a bonus to anybody with Force points. Force users don't really need any more help. This rule is a "rich get richer" sort of thing, IMO. |
Yup/ The RAW is that for ever dark side point you possess but are not yet turned, you CAN gain (player's choice) 1D to any force skill activation rolls. BUT if you accept the dark side's offer, you must have pure intent to use it or risk gaining another DSP. Or you can decline the offer, but your activation of force powers are at a higher difficulty. |
OK, so it was a house rule not RAW ... sorry for miss posting it here then ...
If I'm remembering it correctly, it wasn't near as big a benefit as the 1d for a DSP, so it had to be a pip bonus per FP. I think he had a cap, on it too. But like I said it was a LONG time ago and I hardly ever played a force user sooooo didn't pay too much attention to it ...
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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No apology necessary, lurker! You were asking a RAW question, even if the answer turned out to be "no."
| Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | Any light side force user in my game is remarkably weak, so this let's them actually activate force powers without spending loads of character points. |
Things should be slow in the beginning. But just think about how this plays out. Characters typically increase the number of Force points they have as the game progresses. But they also presumably increase their Force skills during that same time. So while an extra +2 to Force skills at the beginning of the game might seem like a nice way to kickstart your Jedi players (while hopefully not irritating your non-Jedi players), this bonus will just be completely unmanageable down the road.
With only 5 Force points, you have already effectively decreased the difficulty of activating Force powers by an entire difficulty level! Luke had 25 Force points by the time Return of the Jedi rolled around. His lowest Force skill was Alter at 7D. Adding 25 to 7D statistically doubles his Alter skill total from 7D to slightly over 14D.
And you're not really doing your lightside characters any favors by adopting this rule, either. Yes, it will make their own powers activate easier, but darksiders will benefit just as much. At Return of the Jedi, the Emperor had 35 Force points. Although Luke might like that +25 he would get on a roll to heal himself, would he really want the Emperor (who already seriously out-classed him in Force skills) to get an additional +10 advantage over him on opposed checks? The characters with the greatest bonus will usually be those who need it the least.
I can appreciate wanting to kickstart your new Jedi characters, but you're probably better off going with some kind of Force attribute house rule, as has been discussed elsewhere in these forums. |
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Dromdarr_Alark
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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So I'll put a cap on it at 3 and say it doesn't stack with DSPs.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, or you make it so that characters who have fallen to the dark side no longer get a bonus in this manner.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:56 am Post subject: |
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Even if you put that cap in place, it is still yet another benefit singling out force users over the 'plebs' of the galaxy. That is on top of the fact force users (well force sensitives) can theoretically get as many FP as they can earn, unlike non force sensitives (the plebs), who are capped at 5. So not only are they benefiting by having more than 5 FP they can spend, but they are benefiting by having a "non spending' bonus from those FPs.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Even if you put that cap in place, it is still yet another benefit singling out force users over the 'plebs' of the galaxy. That is on top of the fact force users (well force sensitives) can theoretically get as many FP as they can earn, unlike non force sensitives (the plebs), who are capped at 5. So not only are they benefiting by having more than 5 FP they can spend, but they are benefiting by having a "non spending' bonus from those FPs. |
But if the bonuses are only added to force skill checks, then the differentiation is meaningless because the non-FS can't use force skills period.
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lurker
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | So I'll put a cap on it at 3 and say it doesn't stack with DSPs. |
Rgr on that, if I'm remembering it correctly there was a cap 3 or 5 ??? sounds about right.
Plus you HAD to be on the light side. I can't remember how harsh it was, if it was a single DSP canxed the benefit out, or if you had a point or to of DSP wiggle room. But this was a full up good guy benifit
For me, as an inherent good guy, I'd say a DSP cancels out the benefit. You have to be following the light side of the path to benefit from the light side - as opposed to the tempting force of the dark side.
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lurker
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Even if you put that cap in place, it is still yet another benefit singling out force users over the 'plebs' of the galaxy. That is on top of the fact force users (well force sensitives) can theoretically get as many FP as they can earn, unlike non force sensitives (the plebs), who are capped at 5. So not only are they benefiting by having more than 5 FP they can spend, but they are benefiting by having a "non spending' bonus from those FPs. |
This is a tangent, but .... how many force points do you all give out? I know in theory the Jedi has an unlimited ability to have force points. But that is theory, how many FPs do GMs give out to them?
If a Jedi having too many FPs is an issue, why give it out to them???
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Dromdarr_Alark
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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My campaign has been going on for a year and a half now, and I've only given out 2 force points.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | Even if you put that cap in place, it is still yet another benefit singling out force users over the 'plebs' of the galaxy. That is on top of the fact force users (well force sensitives) can theoretically get as many FP as they can earn, unlike non force sensitives (the plebs), who are capped at 5. So not
only are they benefiting by having more than 5 FP they can spend, but they are benefiting by having a "non spending' bonus from those FPs. |
But if the bonuses are only added to force skill checks, then the differentiation is meaningless because the non-FS can't use force skills period. |
Which is why i say its yet another power up for force users.
| lurker wrote: |
This is a tangent, but .... how many force points do you all give out? I know in theory the Jedi has an unlimited ability to have force points. But that is theory, how many FPs do GMs give out to them?
If a Jedi having too many FPs is an issue, why give it out to them??? |
That depends. In one of my longer home games (15 months iirc) i handed out just under 3 dozen over the course of it. That was split amongst 5 players. 1 force user, 3 other force sensitives and one non force sensitive. Since it takes spending one to earn a bonus if done heroically, the NFS earned the least bonuses. The Force user earned the most (11 on his own iirc), while the 3 force sensitives earned between 5 and 8 each.
In our sparks group, i know several FS pcs (some force users, others just force sensitive) carrying 20+ FPs, from how the group awards them.
| Quote: | c. Four things can happen after a Force point is used:
1.) If used for evil or greed, the Force point is lost and replaced with a Dark Side point (It is the GM’s responsibility to inform players if this could happen for any particular action and allow that player to do something differently),
2.) If used for a non-evil act but also not necessarily good, the Force point is simply lost and not replaced but there is no Dark Side point gain either,
3.) If used for good but not heroic or dramatic (saving your own bacon), the Force point is replaced,
4.) If used for good and at a heroic or dramatic time, the Force point is replaced and the player gains an additional Force point. |
Since nearly every module has a "Dramatic" final fight scene, that is where the most FP can be earned, and depending on which DM ran it, it could be "you didn't do anything that would make the highlight reels, so no bonus" all the way to "you spent 4, in that fight with XYZ, so get those 4 back and take 3 bonus.."
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