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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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As various projects here on the forum have been delving into the OB in the Imperial Sourcebook, this ship has come up on occasion. It's mentioned only in a single paragraph in the OB, and was never described or given stats. I've always wanted to take a stab at it, but usually when I am writing stats, I need a visual of some kind to jump start my creative impulses. I finally found what I was looking for, thanks to Google Image Search, so, without further ado, here is the...
DELTA-CLASS TROOP TRANSPORT
Craft: Rendili Star Drive's Delta-Class Troop Transport
Type: Combat-Modified Troop Transport
Scale: Capital
Length: 300 meters
Skill: Capital Ship Piloting: Delta-Class Transport
Crew: 150 (50 @ +10), plus 18 gunners
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 3D+2
Capital Ship Gunnery 4D
Capital Ship Piloting 4D+1
Capital Ship Shields 4D
Sensors 4D+1
Passengers: 4500 (troops)
Cargo Capacity: 15,000 metric tons
Consumables: 6 months
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x2
Hyperdrive Backup: x20
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 1D
Space: 4
Atmosphere: 280; 800 kmh
Hull: 3D
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
Passive: 20/0D
Scan: 40/1D
Search: 80/2D
Focus: 2/3D
Weapon Systems:
6 Dual Turbolaser Cannon
Fire Arc: 2 front/left, 2 front/right, 1 rear/left, 1 rear/right (+5 difficulty to fire into the Rear Arc, due to the placement of the ship's engines).
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Orbital Range: 6-30/70/150km
Atmosphere Range: 300m-1.5/3.5/7.5km
Damage: 4D
6 Laser Cannon
Fire Arc: 1 front, 2 left, 2 right, 1 rear
Crew: 1
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-5/10/17
Atmosphere Range: 100-500m/1/1.7km
Damage: 4D
4 Concussion Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: 1 front, 1 left, 1 right, 1 rear
Crew: 3
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-12/30/60
Orbital Range: 4-24/60/120km
Atmosphere Range: 200-1.2/3/6km
Damage: 6D
Starfighter Complement: None standard, but the ship is equipped with launch bays that are normally used for rapid deployment of assault shuttles or combat airspeeders
Capsule: The Delta-Class Troop Transport began as a basic, unarmed general transport during the Clone Wars. During the rapid expansion of the Imperial military, the Delta was upgraded with a modest weapon system so that it could be deployed on its own against lightly defended targets. While old, slow and outdated, the Delta continues to serve in Assault Fleets across the galaxy as a utility transport, moving troop units from planet to planet in situations where a division or corps level transport is unnecessary. The ship is equipped for atmospheric flight, and can deploy troops either via carried shuttle craft or directly by landing on the planet's surface.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:23 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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I like it. Following the image, it seems like it's a design which is for sale for $20.00. Are you going to do more with it, other than profile the image along with your statline?
Though, did the OB refer to the Delta-class that's already been developed, at least insofar as having an image? Ships called Delta-class seem to be dime-a-dozen, given the DX-9, this thing, that thing, and the JV-7 Escort shuttle. I've kind of assumed that the Delta-class referred to in the ImpSB was the 'this thing', mentioned above, which came out of the 1983 Marvel comic, Star Wars 73: Lahsbane. It looks a lot smaller than this 300m transport.
In that naming respect, it's kind of like the Gamma-class attack/assault shuttle, which can refer to this or this. Maybe they're the same thing, just produced by different media (WEG vs. the X-Wing/TIE-Fighter computer games). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | I like it. Following the image, it seems like it's a design which is for sale for $20.00. Are you going to do more with it, other than profile the image along with your statline? |
This is pretty much it. My idea was to provide an image and stats to go with a ship mentioned in the OB. The stats are basically a slower, more vulnerable, less heavily armed version of the CC-9600, so it can carry any of the standard Imperial Army Regiments.
| Quote: | | Though, did the OB refer to the Delta-class that's already been developed, at least insofar as having an image? |
The ImpSB version of the Delta predates all previous uses of the word Delta with regards to naming of ship classes. That hasn't stopped the Wookieepidiots from assuming that any other use of the Delta name must also be applicable. In the description of the Troop Line on Wookieepedia, it states that a Troop Line can be composed of two of these with two Strike Cruisers as escorts. That such a thing passes for fact at Wookieepedia is one of the reasons I view it with such suspicion when deciding whether or not it is a reliable reference.
The description of the troop line specifically statesThere are other types of transports, most of them left over from the days of the Old Republic. Some, such as the Delta-class troop transport, have been converted from true transports to glorified attack shuttles, but many remain in service as intersystem transports as the Army grows. IMO, any ship placed in a troop line would have to be Capital Scale, and capable of carrying at least a full troop regiment, yet all of the other versions of the Delta are starfighter scale and capable of only small unit transport. As such, I designed my own.
As far as the "attack shuttle" line, I noticed that there is a unit on the hull just aft of the "chin" laser turret that resembles a missile box-launcher. I'm considering updating the stats to include a pair of concussion missile launchers to reflect a fire support capability, as well as adding 4-6 laser cannon for defensive purposes.
EDIT: Change the stats to add the weapons I was considering.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Quote: | | Though, did the OB refer to the Delta-class that's already been developed, at least insofar as having an image? |
The ImpSB version of the Delta predates all previous uses of the word Delta with regards to naming of ship classes. That hasn't stopped the Wookieepidiots from assuming that any other use of the Delta name must also be applicable. In the description of the Troop Line on Wookieepedia, it states that a Troop Line can be composed of two of these with two Strike Cruisers as escorts. That such a thing passes for fact at Wookieepedia is one of the reasons I view it with such suspicion when deciding whether or not it is a reliable reference. |
Okay, that's clearly an error on Wookieepedia, but here it is: in this social construction of knowledge, he who posts, wins. So, I'm going to alter this in Wookieepedia.
You're right that there are many hands in Wookieepedia, and some do a better job than others. If übergeeks such as us want to have a correct source, then we need to put out own shoulders to the works.
That done, did you infer from the ImpSB that the number of troops aboard a troop line (and thus the Evakmar and this troop transport) had to be a certain amount, and that's how you derived 4500 troops? I think it'd be good to add that to my talk page on Wookieepedia about this, thus strengthening the case that this Delta is not the DX-9 the original editor was looking for. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Your "that one" from above was actually in use during the era of the Old Republic video game, so at ~4,000 years old, it is unlikely to still be in service. However, it is conceivable that Delta-Class Transports could be converted to light carriers. I know during WWII that the Japanese converted seaplane tenders into carriers, and indeed the first generation aircraft carriers were almost all converted transports.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Your "that one" from above was actually in use during the era of the Old Republic video game, so at ~4,000 years old, it is unlikely to still be in service. However, it is conceivable that Delta-Class Transports could be converted to light carriers. I know during WWII that the Japanese converted seaplane tenders into carriers, and indeed the first generation aircraft carriers were almost all converted transports. |
I just mentioned it as an example of the mass proliferation of the name 'Delta'.
Just to jump off of your updating/conversion argument, however, how rapidly does technology really improve in the SWU?
Watching the Prequels, it seems like almost everything they have is somehow better than what they have in the OT. That's probably just because it needed to look that way in order to wow the audience, but what are your thoughts on the differences of the stats which have appeared for the Prequel-era materiel vs. the OT-era stuff.
Example: ARC-170 vs. X-Wing
ARC-170 is just as fast and maneuverable, with thicker hull and heavier shields, and better weapons, than the X-Wing.
Or, while we're talking about it, the Actic-class vs. Vader's TIE Advanced
It looks like Vader downgraded, with the Actis being much faster and vastly more maneuverable.
Oh, and even the droids can't hold as many jumps as they used to. What is this, my grandpa's version of the universe, where everything was better when he was young? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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It is important to remember that any stat from the prequel era is either a conversion from D20 or Saga, or it is somebody's homebrew. As such, I take it with a grain of salt, especially the speeds. In the case of the prequel fighters, I just make a few changes relative to the Rebellion Era ships to make them a bit better fit, such as chopping the speeds to 9 (for the Actis) and 6 (for the ARC-170).
EDIT: It's also important to remember that fighters may actually have been better than 1st. and 2nd. generation TIEs, but that TIEs had advantages in the way of mass production...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | It is important to remember that any stat from the prequel era is either a conversion from D20 or Saga, or it is somebody's homebrew. As such, I take it with a grain of salt, especially the speeds. In the case of the prequel fighters, I just make a few changes relative to the Rebellion Era ships to make them a bit better fit, such as chopping the speeds to 9 (for the Actis) and 6 (for the ARC-170). |
*grumbling:* Stupid kids, thinking their prequel crap is better than our OT stuff.
Damn, now I'm the grandpa of this scenario. 
Last edited by Mikael Hasselstein on Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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LOL. I've been on an anti-off-topic kick lately, otherwise I would post some of my stat revisions...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
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Looks like an RSD Dreadnaught, crossbred with the Rodger Young from Starship Troopers. I like it.
| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | *grumbling:* Stupid kids, thinking their prequel crap is better than our OT stuff.
d*mn, now I'm the grandpa of this scenario. |
Just go with it:
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Dromdarr_Alark
Commander
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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It seems like it would hold its own against a Nebulon-B in 1-on-1 confrontation. The Nebulon is both larger and dedicated to ship combat, so that would make its function redundant (not to mention cost-inefficient, which the Empire hates).
Based on the image you provided, I only see 5 double turbolasers. The ventral turret appears to be in the middle of the ship.
I would also argue that it doesn't have concussion missiles, or if it did, they would be ventral (in order to clean up the landing area). The box in front of the bridge looks more like a sensors or communication array. Also, it fits with American Earthling missile boxes, but not so much with Star Wars style missile launchers.
I would probably give it a speed of 5. 4 just seems too cumbersome to me, especially if you are carrying thousands of troops through a fleet battle to land on a planet with a turbolaser defense grid. It also just has proportionally large engines.
I really like the image and I appreciate you drafting some stats for this. I will definitely be using this ship in my game.
I hope my feedback helps.
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Dromdarr_Alark
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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I just noticed that those large protrusions on the bottom look like massive drop pods.
Just a thought....
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Looks like an RSD Dreadnaught, crossbred with the Rodger Young from Starship Troopers. I like it. |
That was in my thoughts when I made it a Rendili product.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | It seems like it would hold its own against a Nebulon-B in 1-on-1 confrontation. The Nebulon is both larger and dedicated to ship combat, so that would make its function redundant (not to mention cost-inefficient, which the Empire hates). |
| Quote: | | I would also argue that it doesn't have concussion missiles, or if it did, they would be ventral (in order to clean up the landing area). The box in front of the bridge looks more like a sensors or communication array. Also, it fits with American Earthling missile boxes, but not so much with Star Wars style missile launchers. |
I may just pull the missile launchers; I was thinking in terms of a ground attack weapon, and not so much in relative weapons strength. In terms of relative strength, the Nebulon is more durable and packs a harder punch (12 turbolasers vs. 6, and they are also more accurate).
| Quote: | | Based on the image you provided, I only see 5 double turbolasers. The ventral turret appears to be in the middle of the ship. |
If you zoom in, you can see that it is offset from the ship's center line, and you can just see the gun barrels of the sixth turret extending from behind the command tower.
| Quote: | | I would probably give it a speed of 5. 4 just seems too cumbersome to me, especially if you are carrying thousands of troops through a fleet battle to land on a planet with a turbolaser defense grid. It also just has proportionally large engines. |
Imperial doctrine for troop transport is that they don't send troop transports into a system without that system first being cleared by combat units. There are some other ships that might be capable of forced combat landings, but this one is only capable of doing so against very lightly defended targets. Plus, large engines doesn't guarantee high speed. Space 4 just seemed a better fit to me.
| Quote: | | I just noticed that those large protrusions on the bottom look like massive drop pods. |
I picture those as landing ramps for troops and vehicles. Drop pods or assault shuttles would be launched from the bays back by the command tower.
| Quote: | I really like the image and I appreciate you drafting some stats for this. I will definitely be using this ship in my game.
I hope my feedback helps. |
Yes, it did, and I'm glad you liked it. I'm going to pull the concussion missile launchers now...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Mikael Hasselstein
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Quote: | | I just noticed that those large protrusions on the bottom look like massive drop pods. |
I picture those as landing ramps for troops and vehicles. Drop pods or assault shuttles would be launched from the bays back by the command tower. |
So, if there are landing ramps, then I assume that this thing can land on a planet's surface. Otherwise, it can't really be a 'glorified assault shuttle' to begin with.
By the 'back bays', do you mean those open areas about halfway along the ship, just forward and to either side of the command tower? Are those landing platforms, with hangars forward and aft of it?
Thinking more about this ship - I have to say that I really do like it a lot - I wonder if we, as the a group (engaged in the ISD and other projects), might put the pennies together to buy the $10 3d image. It would be awesome to get an orthographic to impose it against other ships. Of course, that might just be a distraction from our main mission.
Then again, I'm trying to be orthodox. There are many ship types out there, and only a handful have stats+image+etc [where 'etc' might be a deckplan, deep description in the literature, and such-like]. My general predilection is to fully flesh out those ships which already have significant presence in the literature, filling in the gaps based on integrating the known reference material as best as we can. Ergo, our ISD project.
But I do like this ship. |
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