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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Something was bothering me with regards to the Dictator and the Vindicator, in that putting a heavy cruiser and a medium cruiser on the same hull kinda defeated the purpose. What I would suggest is, since the entire line is built on a heavy cruiser hull, make one of them a standard Heavy Cruiser, but make the other one an Assault Cruiser, with even heavier armament designed to take on larger capital ships (at the expense of troop or fighter capacity, or something else appropriate)
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I see it more as a designation of the task it's capable of than a hard and fast limit based on length, I do use the anaxas war college classification system but 600m lies right on the board of two classifications and I modified the designation based on weapons and power projection for the medium and heavy cruiser designations. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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It's also supposed to be an indicator of speed and maneuverability, in that a medium vessel will be lighter and more vulnerable if struck, but will be able to accelerate and maneuver better than a heavy cruiser.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Just reread the wookiepedia article and it says it's primarily length and can be modified up or down based on armament and intended role, now you can read that role includes speed and maneuverability.
That said I'm reading it as length then armament then role for deciding its classification.
In the case we are discussing I'm going on armament first then intended intended roles, the vindicator with the heavier guns is designed for larger targets so gets the heavy cruiser designation, while the dictator with its light armament and lighter/smaller targets gets the medium cruiser designation. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Where does the Enforcer fit into all of this? Seems to me like the Enforcer has a high degree of overlap with the Dictator.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wildfire wrote: | | In the case we are discussing I'm going on armament first then intended intended roles, the vindicator with the heavier guns is designed for larger targets so gets the heavy cruiser designation, while the dictator with its light armament and lighter/smaller targets gets the medium cruiser designation. |
I'm not sure what you're saying. Armament first, then mission? In ship design, mission dictates armament, not the other way around.
I think it is the medium versus heavy thing that is throwing me. If you used escort or picket or patrol or battle or something relating more to mission than heavy and medium, it would clear up some of the discrepancy.
EDIT: Looking at Wikipedia, a cruiser was originally defined as light or heavy based on both its armament and its size, with Heavy Cruisers carrying 8" guns and displacing ~10,000 tons, and Light Cruisers carrying 4" or 6" guns and displacing ~5,000 tons.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Am kinda working backwards as I was working with premade stats so worked off the armament dictating the role hence seeming backwards, it basically boiled down to the lighter armaments of the Dictator meaning it gets the medium cruiser role. The Vindicator is already defined as heavy cruiser by the source material on wookiepedia along with its armament so defined the role around the known info. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't recall there being a Heavy or Medium Cruiser on the original web site versions of these...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
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Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The wookiepedia page for the vindicator states it's a heavy cruiser, the others I'm not sure if I still have the original files handy they may be on one of my backup drives I'll dig them out tomorrow and check but I think they had medium cruiser as a designation, which I kept as it fit the armaments and role the vessel ended up having after all my tweaks over the years. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'm positive the Vindicator showed up more recently, because I don't recall seeing it on the site.
I'd also be somewhat wary of basing your classification off the Anaxes System; it may look cool at first blush, but length is not the best indicator.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| It might not be the best system but it's the only cannon one even though it was only recently invented it is at least system that is fairly consistent. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| wildfire wrote: | | It might not be the best system but it's the only cannon one even though it was only recently invented it is at least system that is fairly consistent. |
No, canon applies only to the material drawn from the films. Just because some author somewhere came up with a chart doesn't make it canon. A system using tonnage or displacement would be more accurate, as length is only a single dimension.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | wildfire wrote: | | It might not be the best system but it's the only cannon one even though it was only recently invented it is at least system that is fairly consistent. |
No, canon applies only to the material drawn from the films. Just because some author somewhere came up with a chart doesn't make it canon. A system using tonnage or displacement would be more accurate, as length is only a single dimension. |
Okay we are going to have to disagree on this point as I allow into cannon things from the greater universe, in this case it was created especially to explain things in universe and i think it makes as much sense as some of the other official things |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wildfire wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | wildfire wrote: | | It might not be the best system but it's the only cannon one even though it was only recently invented it is at least system that is fairly consistent. |
No, canon applies only to the material drawn from the films. Just because some author somewhere came up with a chart doesn't make it canon. A system using tonnage or displacement would be more accurate, as length is only a single dimension. |
Okay we are going to have to disagree on this point as I allow into cannon things from the greater universe, in this case it was created especially to explain things in universe and i think it makes as much sense as some of the other official things |
That's all well and good for "your own view of the SW Universe", wildfire, but that isn't actually "canon". Star Wars canon (at the moment) fits into specific levels, defined by letter codes (G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon and D-canon). Note also that this is going to change (thankfully), where someday we'll only have what is "official" (canon) and not (non-canon).
So while any of us gets to put whatever we want to into our own SW Universes, none of us get to "allow" anything into canon. 
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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He beat me to it...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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