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Forces of the Farstay Sector Group

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The Brain
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:52 am Post subject:

So when was political power ever based solely on merit and need in the Empire? There are several possible answers to how he can get this priority allotment of fleet units. This moff has the goods on someone high up in the IN high command. His patron Imperial Adviser is on the rise in court has the pull and rewards his clients. Another Imperial Adviser or IN high command type is diverting resources to set up a rival to fail. A grand Admiral or even Palpy himself might have some special project or plans for Farstay that wants extra protection/muscle for.

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:15 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

So when was political power ever based solely on merit and need in the Empire? There are several possible answers to how he can get this priority allotment of fleet units.
This moff has the goods on someone high up in the IN high command.
His patron Imperial Adviser is on the rise in court has the pull and rewards his clients.
Another Imperial Adviser or IN high command type is diverting resources to set up a rival to fail.
A grand Admiral or even Palpy himself might have some special project or plans for Farstay that wants extra protection/muscle for.

As I said in a previous post, he needs a more robust back story, and any of these might be suitable. And this is a lot more than priority allotment of fleet units; he is drawing massive numbers of ships that, by their own write-ups, never went into production beyond a few prototypes. I don't care how good someone's pull is with HQ; they can't conjure ships out of thin air.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

The Brain
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:05 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

You know who could conjure ships out of thin air? The GM because it's his campaign. Instead of helping him come up with some back story and maybe make his campaign richer in background detail you just dropped a "No your wrong, that's not possible this is how your game should be." Because as we all know the Star Wars franchise is famed for its sociopolitical and economic plausibility, right?

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:32 am Post subject:

Mikael Hasselstein wrote:

Interesting - I like this thread and the development of a home-brew sector. Are you thinking about writing up a booklet about the Farstey Sector?

Now, I don't think a Moff from a place like Farstey might have that kind of pull. Even if it isn't out on the Outer Rim, Farstey doesn't even have a good hyperroute, nor does it have any systems of particular note (unless Wildfire wants to write it up otherwise).

Yep been working on and off for years as the enthusiasm takes me, recently been very busy with it.

The Farstay sector is a complete fabrication, not he Farstey sector listed on wookiepedia, years ago Fartsay was on the wookiepedia but it's been retconed out as a typo I think, but the name sounded good to me so I took it and ran with it.

It's located in map grid M18 on most galaxy maps, the capital of Farstay is located on the Hydian way, and the sector is bordered by Vivenda, Sluis, Seswenna, Videnda and Mayagil sectors. basically in the most recent map from the atlas I've nibbled a little form each of those sectors where they meet to create by own little piece of the galaxy.

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:08 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

Okay...

A quick analysis of your lines...

Attack and Heavy Attack - These come closest to matching the OB. I still don't think it is appropriate to throw lighter guns on a Heavy Cruiser and call it a Medium Cruiser (especially when the Imperial Navy already has an excellent Medium Cruiser in the Strike), but you're obviously attached to the idea.

It's not just a case of just changing the guns and changing the classification but taking a base hull of a crusier and reusing it for many missions,

crmcneill wrote:

Pursuit - Supposed to be composed of fast light cruisers that can maintain contact with retreating enemy ships. Based on the stats you posted, the Interceptor cruiser/carriers (Space 6) are actually holding the Protectors (Space 8) back. Best to use ships with comparable speeds.

crmcneill wrote:

Reconnaissance - Okay, so the Surveyors are obviously a real Cadillac of a recon platform. Since they are replacing light cruisers, having only 2 instead of 4 is appropriate. This costs you, however, in real time recon ability in that the Surveyor can only be in a maximum of 2 places at once instead of 4.

Didn't think it would be justified to put four Surveyors in one line and as they carry probe droids they can spread their net far and wide if needed.

crmcneill wrote:

Skirmish - Supposed to be composed of 4-20 "small combatants" with a mission of harassing larger ships or engaging enemy starfighters in coordinated action. Essentially what you have here is a double-sized Pursuit Line, and none of the vessels meet the description of "small combatants". This is a place for 200-300m corvettes and frigates, not a herd of 600m cruisers.

Agreed am looking for a corvette that I like for this role most likely a Marauder variant at the moment.

crmcneill wrote:

Troop - The key to the troop line is what it can carry. A single Evakmar-KDY can carry any of the Imperial Army's four corps types (the largest of which is the Armor Corps with 74,794 men, 1,219 heavy tanks and 5,128 other vehicles), with room to spare. Per the description in the OB, the ship was specifically built with room for expanded size units (my stat write-up for the Evakmar KDY gave it room for 120,000 troops). And the troop line has two of them, with a bare minimum of 160,000 passenger slots for troop transport. Your four Invaders total 72,000 troops, little more than half what two Evakmar-KDY's can carry. The Transporters are really more appropriate for the Support Forces at the Fleet level, so I'm guessing you included them to provide extra equipment transportation for the troop units. The problem there is that having troops on one ship and vehicles and equipment on another increases the coordination problems of getting everything to the surface and sorted out into some semblance of organization. And eight Dictators for a line that never goes anywhere that a Battle Squadron hasn't cleared first is just overkill.

This is a divergence from the book with the line able to carry a corps, yes not all are on board the Invaders but they can be carried, the Transports are their as any invasion needs supplies and I don't think the Invaders have enough for sustained operations.

Their is one Dictator escort for each troop or transport ship as that's what you have in the Imperial Sourcebook and they are their to protect against surprises even if the Battle squadron has cleared the system first it better to be safe than loose a corps of troops.

It also allows smaller groups to be dispatched on mission that require less than a Corps of troops to be deployed, a battle group deployment would be four ships, an Invader, a Transport and two Dictators for escort.

crmcneill wrote:

Bombard Line - The basis for this, the Torpedo Line, is really one of the more contradictory things in a book filled with contradictions, but I'll leave that alone for now. I'm not sure why you overloaded some lines with way too many ships that are way too big for the mission you are assigning them, then leaving others at just 2 ships? Considering these two are basically fire support platforms, some kind of escort would be appropriate. IMO, considering how rare the Torpedo Sphere is supposed to be (only six in existence), a better fit for this line would be a pair of Victory I's, especially since bombard units are supposed to combat planetary defenses, while the Subjugator is intended as a fire support platform in secured orbital space.

Bombard lines don't operate alone they would almost always be part of a bombardment squadron which has the escorts needed.

crmcneill wrote:

Also, as I was reading through the descriptions of your various Immobilizer models, I saw a lot of variations on the phrase "black-balled" and "rejected by the Navy". If this is the case for so many of these ship types, how did enough of them get produced to make enough for a full Sector Group (which is usually in excess of 2,000 ships)?

Yep fluff to say why they are not in common use outside the sector I want to use them in, Limited prototypes could be a dozen units or more.

In the real world when vehicles are being tested for military contracts they often have a dozen or two supplied for tests, now I know this isn't a good analogy for spaceships but i can see the empire in it's might ordering a dozen cheap ships for testing with their budgets.

Once it was refused by the Navy as a whole the local Moff used his pull to get the test units assigned and then ordered more up to expand their use, with the blessing of the Emperor, In game only the Emperor knows why he's letting this happen, out of game its to stir the pot with regards to the corporate rivalry between KDY and Sienar as he thinks the Navy is getting too friendly with KDY, they do seem to have the lock on capital ship construction. Anyway it's a bit of back story for the sector.

crmcneill wrote:

To sum up, what you have here is a jumbled mess. Some ship types fit, others only fit by mission, not vessel size classification, while others seem jammed in somewhere because they had to go somewhere. The Cruiser / Frigate / Corvette classifications exist for a reason in the OB, and putting a cruiser in a slot meant for a frigate or corvette strains the believability of what you are trying to do here. On top of that, even if you wanted to make a sector group composed entirely of these ship types, some of your ship write-ups need to be reworked to show that the ships actually went into production rather than just being failed prototypes. In addition, your back story of how this sector group came into being needs to be much more robust than it is to justify something so far removed from the OB listed in the ImpSB. Ultimately, this is less of a sector group organizational chart than a Seinar Fleet Systems dog & pony show. The mission requirements of the line should dictate the ships assigned to it (including efficiency and logistics), rather than just putting in a ship that fills general requirements.

IMO, a lot of your ships would make an excellent addition when filling out slots in the existing OB, but they should be applied in a manner consistent with the OB. If you still want to continue with your project as proposed, I'm willing to assist you, as I've wasted a lot of nerd-time getting to know the Imperial Sourcebook. However, I hope you will take into account what I've pointed out as you move forward.

Am working to expand the ship classes I use and flesh out things but thanks for the points of information.

will probably post a new draft is a few days once I juggle a few things but a lot isn't going to change much, as I'm happy with most of the lines as shown.

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:12 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

Palatine is backing the Moff in this case as one of his many experiments to stir up discontent and keep people jumping, the Moff is also a member of the Canted Circle which gives him a fair bit of political influence it his own right.

That coupled with the factory that makes these variants in his sector then getting hulls is easier than you'd think Smile

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:56 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

Instead of helping him come up with some back story and maybe make his campaign richer in background detail you just dropped a "No your wrong, that's not possible this is how your game should be." Because as we all know the Star Wars franchise is famed for its sociopolitical and economic plausibility, right?

Because if he's going to base his Sector Group off the actual published Sector Group, then he's diverging from it pretty far. What he's doing shows either a misunderstanding of the way the OB works (or real life naval deployments, for that matter), or he is willfully ignoring it. If he's willfully ignoring it, fine, whatever, but if he is actually unaware of the issues, then it is actually helpful to point them out.

Helping someone with their idea doesn't mean kissing their @$$ and telling them that you think they have a great idea when you really don't. Helping often means using your own experience to say to a person, "okay, I see the following problems." I see a lot of problems with this idea, both from the position of following the OB laid out in the ImpSB, and from a real world military standpoint, a more plausible backstory being just one of them.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:41 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

The Brain wrote:

I made quite a few mistakes with this and it needs more thought but I am loosely following the order of battle as it's laid out but plot has a greater influence than normal.

The backstory is spotty as it's still in flux and is changing and adapting as the sector gets fleshed out.

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject:

wildfire wrote:

It's not just a case of just changing the guns and changing the classification but taking a base hull of a crusier and reusing it for many missions,

But by definition, a heavy cruiser is bigger than a medium cruiser. The real world descriptions of heavy cruisers and medium cruisers define them as ships of a certain displacement, with differing armament an extension of the size (as in, you can't put the heavy cruiser guns on the medium cruiser because it increases the chance of the ship capsizing). The difference in speed, armor and armament is what, in turn, dictates the differing mission types. Furthermore, a physically smaller ship is reasonably assumed to require less money and material to construct, and by extension be lighter, faster, require fewer crew, etc.

The Imperial Navy already has a medium cruiser (the Strike) which is 450 meters long. The heavy cruiser (the Dreadnought) is 600 meters long. Now, length is not the most accurate measurement of warship size (real world uses tonnage or displacement), but a true medium cruiser would be closer in dimensions to the Strike than the Dreadnought.

Suggested Fix: Since Medium vs. Heavy is a measurement of size, not mission, change the Dictator from a Medium Cruiser to an Escort Cruiser, which is basically what you are already using it as.

Quote:

Having the fighters do the pursuing has some issues. Naval doctrine for starfighter use is for starfighters to operate in support of capital ships, not the other way around. Imperial fighters also lack the ability to pursue and damage a fleeing enemy capital ship (i.e. Fighters and Interceptors can keep up with them, but lack the hard-hitting weaponry needed to do the job, while Bombers have the punch but not the speed).

Suggested Fix: Rework the stats on the Interceptor and the Protector; your escort carrier is faster, yet carries fewer fighters. As such, it would be more appropriate to make that one a pursuit ship.

Quote:

Here's the problem; per the ImpSB, the Army is really big on standardized organization and procedure.

Quote:

As a troop line's function is intimately connected with that of the Army, troops lines vary less than other lines. The Army considers consistency a virtue.

Quote:

The corps is one of the few instances of real cooperation between the Army and the Navy. Imperial military planners from each branch designed the transport ship to hold all corps types, building in the possibility for expansion into both the starship and the unit. The fact that the corps transport ships are among the newer model of ships in the fleet is perhaps a sign that the two branches are ready to cooperate more closely so that the New Order may expand.

Replacing all of the Evakmar-KDY transports with a far less capable model, then throwing in a second ship to make up for the loss of material transport (but which will actually increase the logistical headache of getting it all to the ground) is going to piss off the Army as well. Per the ImpSB, the Army actually court-martials and executes officers who deviate from procedure, and forcing an entire Sector Army to deviate from procedure just so that your Sector Group can have just Seinar Fleet Systems troop transports (which, again, are far inferior in capability to the Evakmar-KDY) is going to piss off a lot of important generals. Maybe enough for your Moff to end up in the crosshairs of a Special Missions sniper.

Suggested Fix: Find a way to include both the Evakmar-KDY and the Invader, as the two together expand options for transport rather than locking the Sector Group into one or the other. The Invader is a great complement to an Evakmar in that it can rapidly move a division from planet to planet. Failing that, it would be better to exchange Invaders for Evakamars on a 4 to 1 basis instead of 2 for 1. Transporters make a poor substitute, and would be better in a purely support role.

Quote:

Their is one Dictator escort for each troop or transport ship as that's what you have in the Imperial Sourcebook and they are their to protect against surprises even if the Battle squadron has cleared the system first it better to be safe than loose a corps of troops.

First, the ImpSB deploys one medium cruiser escort to defend an asset, specifically a corps-level transport. A more numerous but less capable transport craft will dictate a less capable escort. A division-level transport would be more likely to rate a frigate or a corvette.

Secondly, in the ImpSB, an actual Assault Fleet has a glut of escort ships. Out of 376 ships, only 16 of them are Evakmar-KDY's. You don't need to put escorts actually in the line, because there are plenty of them available the next organizational level up.

Quote:

Bombard lines don't operate alone they would almost always be part of a bombardment squadron which has the escorts needed.

So you are willing to expand the Troop Lines all out of proportion so that they can have escorts, but not the Bombard Lines? You are, in essence, using the same reasoning to justify not giving Bombard Lines an escort as I am to justify not giving Troop Lines one.

Quote:

Am working to expand the ship classes I use and flesh out things but thanks for the points of information.

Glad I could help. A few more suggestions as I'm wrapping up.

1). The Surveyor's description states that it did actually go into production, with a goal of acquiring only four per sector group. Based on its high degree of sophistication, I see it as more of a strategic recon platform than a tactical one. As a strategic platform attached directly to the Sector Group HQ, it could be deployed anywhere in the sector as needed for high priority assignments, leaving the tactical recon to smaller, more numerous vessels (I suggest a Recon-modified Castle)

2). Your Dominator Cruiser was intended as a more versatile variant of the Interdictor, in that while the Interdictor and the Destructor are pretty much one-trick ponies (they can defend themselves and project gravity wells / hyperspace pulse-masses), the Dominator can actually contribute some firepower to a combat line while providing hyperspace interdiction capability. I would suggest pulling the Interdictors and Destructors from the tactical lines and also attaching them directly to Sector Group Command, available for deployment on an as-needed basis.

As such, in an effort to make my criticism as constructive as possible, I offer the following. Based on what you have and the requirements you are imposing as far as working with specific ships, here is my suggested version of your proposed Lines:

Attack Line
-2 Victory II
-3 Vindicator
-4 Dominator*
-4 Dictator
-4 Protector*
-6 Castle
*Commonly used as single ships or sections attached to other lines to provide interdiction or starfighter support.

Heavy Attack Line
-2 Victory II, 4 Dictators
-2 Vindicators, 2 Protector, 4 Dictators
*OB specifies 4 to 8 ships, none smaller than a light cruiser

Pursuit Line
-4 Interceptors
-8 Castles
(Not commonly mixed and matched, as the Castles tend to slow the Interceptors down.

Recon Line
-4 Recon modified Castles (50% weaponry & enhanced sensors)

Skirmish Line
-4 Protectors
-8 Castles
-16 Marauders
-Mix & Match @ a ratio of 1 Protector = 2 Castles = 4 Marauders

Troop Line
-2 Evakmar-KDY
-8 Invader
-1 Evakmar-KDY, 4 Invaders

Bombard Line
-2 Victory I
-4 Subjugator
-1 Victory I, 2 Subjugator

Other Ships:
Transporter - Part of the Support Force vessel pool
Surveyor, Interdictor & Destructor - Attached to Sector Command and assigned to missions as needed.

I included the Victory I and II because, IMO, there will be missions which are too much for a Vindicator to handle, but don't justify the expense of an ISD. The Victory-Class makes a good interim model.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

The Interceptors carry fighters which do most of the pursuing a few squadrons hang back to protect the carriers the rest range ahead of the Protectors to follow and try to cripple ships so the other ships can close and engage.
Having the fighters do the pursuing has some issues. Naval doctrine for starfighter use is for starfighters to operate in support of capital ships, not the other way around. Imperial fighters also lack the ability to pursue and damage a fleeing enemy capital ship (i.e. Fighters and Interceptors can keep up with them, but lack the hard-hitting weaponry needed to do the job, while Bombers have the punch but not the speed).

Suggested Fix: Rework the stats on the Interceptor and the Protector; your escort carrier is faster, yet carries fewer fighters. As such, it would be more appropriate to make that one a pursuit ship.

The way I'm seeing it is the fighters force the fleeting ships to either suffer from pin pricks attacks on ships that might already be damaged or they turn to engage meaning the Protectors get to engage.

Quote:

Here's the problem; per the ImpSB, the Army is really big on standardized organization and procedure.

Quote:

As a troop line's function is intimately connected with that of the Army, troops lines vary less than other lines. The Army considers consistency a virtue.

Quote:

Not sure how to respond to this as I see four ships a better strategic asset than one large corps transport. Also as long as the line is standardised the Army can't complain even if it's not a single ship transport.

Quote:

They have escorts as lines can be deployed individually not just as a squadron.

Quote:

Yes because it makes sense to me that you don't deploy Torpedo lines individually but you do Troop lines.

Quote:

Glad I could help. A few more suggestions as I'm wrapping up.

Thanks for the ideas I need to go away and rethink my fluff and ideas a fair bit.

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject:

wildfire wrote:

But again, the fighters that can catch up to fleeing ships (Fighters and Interceptors) lack the firepower needed to deliver even pinpricks. A starship with its shields intact can ignore pretty much any attack from starfighter-scale lasers. If the Empire had a fast fighter that could deliver ordnance, I could see using them, but they don't. The closest thing in the Imperial arsenal capable of delivering meaningful attacks to capital ships and still having the speed to keep up is a blastboat.

On top of that, the mission of the Pursuit Line is not to force the enemy to turn and engage, but to maintain contact with them until they either return to their base or jump to hyperspace (where it then becomes the responsibility of the Recon Lines). Pursuit ships don't need to carry a lot of fighters or be able to catch up to and disable enemy ships; they just need to be able to keep up with them, have enough durability to shrug off any return fire, and good sensor packages to track their movements. Any fighters they carry would be best used as escorts, keeping the fleeing enemy's own starfighters from attacking and disabling the pursuers.

Quote:

Sure they can, because the Army is in love with adherence to procedure. And their procedure for transport is built around the corps-level transport. Per the ImpSB, it is not unheard of for an officer to deviate from procedure, get court-martialed and executed for it, and then subsequently have his methods evaluated and approved as new standard procedure. That's how in love with procedure the Army is. Now, you could conceivably force-feed it to them, so long as there is no actual reduction in transport capacity, but they won't like it, and they will remember it (and potentially make your Moff pay for it down the road).

Another reason that the Army prefers the Corps-Level transport is that the Army is rapidly expanding its size by increasing the ratio of sub-unit-to-unit at all levels, adding more squads to platoons, more platoons to companies and so on. The Evakmar-KDY was designed particularly with that degree of expansion in mind, so there is a lot more room than just what would be required to carry a single corps of the current size. Your Invader, on the other hand, has enough room for any of the current battlegroup types, but not a lot of room left over for expansion. That is going to be a sticking point for the Army, too, since what makes up an Army Battlegroup or Corps today may not be the same thing in a month or two.

Quote:

They have escorts as lines can be deployed individually not just as a squadron.

Quote:

Yes because it makes sense to me that you don't deploy Torpedo lines individually but you do Troop lines.

Explain the sense to me, please, as I'm not seeing it. In either case, it would be just as easy to attach escort ships from the squadron level if the mission required it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

The Brain
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:41 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

crmcneill wrote:

Helping someone with their idea doesn't mean kissing their @$$ and telling them that you think they have a great idea when you really don't.

Oh good vulgarity always the sign of reasonable argument. So when did anybody start genuflecting in the thread btw?
But hey I've said what I have to say, so I'm going to move on. Good luck with it.

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:44 am Post subject:

Ah, trolls. Gotta love 'em. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996. The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

The Brain
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:21 am Post subject:

crmcneill wrote:

Ah, trolls. Gotta love 'em.

And now name calling classy.

wildfire
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Scotland

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:28 am Post subject:

I think I'm just going to abandon this idea complete as it's cause the complete loss of enthusiasm for the game as a whole.

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