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Only one player takes initiative...
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Dromdarr_Alark
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Only one player takes initiative... Reply with quote

After my gaming session ended last Saturday, one of my players approached me and asked if he should stop coming up with all the ideas. That was when I realized that anything that happened in the game was his idea. It wasn't that he was taking over the decision-making (there was one point during the session where he actively chose to have his character not be in the scene, so that others could step up). The truth is that the other players simply do not come up with ideas.


Background
When I started the campaign over a year ago, I had different players, but two of them are still with me. For the first session, I ran an adaptation of a prewritten adventure (you know, the go to planet, steal weapons from imperials, get chased through a forest, and fly into space with a star destroyer chasing you kind of adventure). I introduced one of the main antagonists, a bounty hunter, whose arm they chopped off.

Anyway, they complained that the first session was too railroaded, so I promised to step back and let them take control of the direction their characters choose.

I stepped back and started creating locations, events, and NPCs. I essentially created an entire sector of space from scratch. There are several powers (Imperial, Rebel, and independent alike) which all have their own motivations.

But now it seems that everyone is at a loss as to what to do. Their main goal is to raise an army big enough to break an Imperial blockade and drive their forces off of a planet, and the only person who has any ideas is the one who plays an ex-mercenary. The other player who was there from the beginning is too caught up in his character to come up with plot ideas. He only wants to do solo bounty hunting missions.

The other two are ex-Blacksun pilots and ex-lovers. One is receiving jedi training from a holocron - and failing at it. The other is the pilot of their tramp freighter and has little interest in getting involved in the rebellion.


What should I do to get my players to take initiative in the game?
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Last edited by Dromdarr_Alark on Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well sounds like a rough group to try and roleplay with. Here are a few suggestions in no real order.

The guy who wants to do nothing but solo bounty hunters missions, suggest he make a different character for the current campaign. Explain that is a group campaign and that you may run some side-trek 1 on 1 adventures at a later time. Basically your telling the player to get along with the program or not play the character anymore, but your doing it in a nice way.

Jedi-in-training does not appear to be an issue. Depending on era and direction of game, playing a Jedi infers a heroic character with similar mindset.

The freighter captain who has no interest in the Alliance is a frustration. If he wants to do nothing but attempt to make money and upgrade his ship then you may wish to suggest he play Traveler instead.

I would suggest with him, something where you introduce a situation where he gets angry with the Imperials. His ship is wrongfully impounded and taken away, etc. Take his ship away from him. The Alliance becomes involved and say they need someone to run supplies for them, but short on pilots. So they will "give" him a ship, but there are obligations that come with it. This will in turn give the character a hook to be involved with the Alliance and have an active dislike for the Empire.

As for the issues with giving the players TOO MUCH FREEDOM. This is a common thing. Finding that balance as a GM is a hard thing. Here are some quick suggestions.

1. Tie the characters together in some way. This is best done during character creations, first game or over the first few adventures.
2. Give each person a roll or have the group do this. The face man, the hired gun, the tech specialist.
3. Have a metaplot idea that runs through several adventures. It is never resolved in the fire few adventures but the adventures offer up a clue or refer back to the metaplot in some way.
4. Try to give each character time to be in the spotlight.
5. Insist characters speak as much in the first person, refer to themselves when speaking about the character and narrate their actions. Do not allow them to talk in metamechanics to you or other plays. Once they narrate out what they are doing, you tell them what skill to use and roll.
6. Encourage the players to add to the narrative by giving names to NPCs, contacts, planets, etc. When they can add to the narrative they feel they are having an impact on the world and are taking part in its creation. They become invested in the story this way.
7. Make it clear they are heroes and should act heroic.
8. The game is meant to be pulpy and there are more than one way to do something.
9. Give Character Point awards during the game for good roleplaying.
10. Add the mechanic that when a player rolls a spectacular success (+10 over TN, typically this is +15) the player narrates something cool/heroic that pertains to the skill just used. This narration should give the player(s) a minor advantage. If the player cannot think of something he can toss it to the group or the GM can just make something up.

I have a lot more suggestions, but these will help I think.
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Dromdarr_Alark
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like your suggestions.

I think I will do something about the character's ship being impounded. Maybe the Empire finds out that the ship was used to transport wanted criminals (the other players). The adventure associated with getting her ship back should be enough to get her involved in the Rebellion.

The bounty hunter wants to help the story, but he doesn't seem capable of thinking outside the confines of bounty hunting (capture this imperial or that corrupt official). I want to talk to him about his character and how, based on his back story, I'd expect him to have more dimensions to his personality.

There is an on-going plot with several enemies. The end goal is to liberate a planet from Imperial invasion. There is a moff, an inquisitor, a pirate lord, the Black Sun, an independent cyborg crime syndicate, and a dismembered bounty hunter who all have competing interests and powers.

Right now the specific task the group has given themselves (by group I mean the one player) is to recruit a mercenary group from a planet full of military training facilities. They plan to "disturb" some imperial facilities on the side.

Some other side quests include discovering imperial supply shipments and hijacking them, finding a former party member who was captured (by their nemesis bounty hunter and sold to an inquisitor), the Force-sensetive discovering the source of his odd dreams, escaping the pursuit of the Black Sun, and finding interesting gear for the local pirate lord.

Shocked Only now did I realize how many things are actually going on in this campaign!

For the quick suggestions:
1. That is a good idea. The characters are tied in one way or another, but not all of the ties have to do with the rebellion. Since characters are already created, we'll have to create the ties with roleplaying.
2. Each person pretty much has a role. We have a pilot, a socialite, a specialized killer, and a stealth man with investigation skills.
3. I mentioned the metaplot(s) above.
4. I usually single out each person and ask them what their characters are doing, and give them time to do what they want to.
5. I like this idea. I have a general rule that the default mode of speaking is in-character. Players must preface OOC speech or I will assume their character is saying it.
6. I do have my players name NPCs (once again, a good idea)
7. I don't know if I have done this enough. A while ago, I noticed my players getting arrogant, so I had some tough adversaries kick their asses for a while. I'm not sure if I'm completely out of that phase. I'll be more cognizant next time.
8. Yes indeedy. I try to find how any idea could be successful in moving the plot. Sometimes the players come up with ideas that would not help in any way or would split the party and ignore other players for sessions at a time.
9. I do reward good roleplaying. Rather, I have my players do it. We have a nomination system. After I give out a base number of CPs, my players may nominate other players for good roleplaying, clever thinking, or awesome fight-scenes. The nominations must be specific, and you can't be nominated twice for the same thing. If I approve a nomination, the player gets one extra CP. I found that it helps the players assess what others value in the game.
10. I generally let my players narrate what happens if I think they roll ridiculously well. I don't have a mechanic for it.

Thanks for your suggestions so far. I have some things to think about.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
7. I don't know if I have done this enough. A while ago, I noticed my players getting arrogant, so I had some tough adversaries kick their asses for a while. I'm not sure if I'm completely out of that phase. I'll be more cognizant next time.


I am not much of an advocate of kicking players buts. At the end of our games I usually have a chat. Its broken down into three to four parts: 1. Does anyone have any questions about the story and what happened?, 2. Any questions about rule mechanics?, 3. Okay guys how did I do, was it railroady, did people feel they had options, was I fair, what could I do to make it better? and finally 4. Okay guys, here is what I am seeing ...

I never want to be intentionally adversarial with my players. I will admit I used to do this as a GM. A sort of punishment for being stupid. It never really worked very well. As I have gotten older and more experienced, I have found the results of addressing the issue bluntly seems to work the best. The trick is to do it in a way that your being helpful without being accusatory. Making feeling they are being attacked is the quickest way for them to become defensive and shut down. That is not what you want =)

Quote:
8. Yes indeedy. I try to find how any idea could be successful in moving the plot. Sometimes the players come up with ideas that would not help in any way or would split the party and ignore other players for sessions at a time.


Yes that does happen sometimes, the characters are coming up with ideas that will not work or have no bearing on what the plot is going to do. I typically let them roleplay it out, but only until it looks like no new ideas have come up, then I will move the narration ahead.

When characters split can be pretty darn hard. I don't usually have much trouble with it, but it does take practice. There are also times when a player is just being difficult. Typically they want to do something specific or want the limelight. Just remember to be fair and move the narration ahead to a point where everyone is either 1. back together or 2. in communication and actively working towards a goal.

I would also caution you about your sandbox games. When you are presenting an idea to your players, some times a well place single sentence is all you need to get on the right track.

I had an adventure I ran for two different groups and because of a single sentence it changed the entire game.

1. Your looking for an Imperial command named Wilkret on the Wheel. He is a well known Sabacc player.

2. Your looking for an Imperial commander named Wilkret on the Wheel. He is a well known Sabacc player with a preference for private games.

See what I mean?
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lurker
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:



Quote:
8. Yes indeedy. I try to find how any idea could be successful in moving the plot. Sometimes the players come up with ideas that would not help in any way or would split the party and ignore other players for sessions at a time.


Yes that does happen sometimes, the characters are coming up with ideas that will not work or have no bearing on what the plot is going to do. I typically let them roleplay it out, but only until it looks like no new ideas have come up, then I will move the narration ahead.

When characters split can be pretty darn hard. I don't usually have much trouble with it, but it does take practice. There are also times when a player is just being difficult. Typically they want to do something specific or want the limelight. Just remember to be fair and move the narration ahead to a point where everyone is either 1. back together or 2. in communication and actively working towards a goal.

I would also caution you about your sandbox games. When you are presenting an idea to your players, some times a well place single sentence is all you need to get on the right track.

I had an adventure I ran for two different groups and because of a single sentence it changed the entire game.

1. Your looking for an Imperial command named Wilkret on the Wheel. He is a well known Sabacc player.

2. Your looking for an Imperial commander named Wilkret on the Wheel. He is a well known Sabacc player with a preference for private games.

See what I mean?


Oh yeah I can attest to that !!!!


Harris' best laid plan ..... completely unaware that the target played in underground games instead of in the casino …… well let's not bring up that dark time for my character Crying or Very sad


That said, he does do the post game 'brief back' each and every time, and it does help! We as characters get to see the behind the scenes info and the 'why' of why things happened. It also lets us know his though process and that helps us adjust our gaming thought process (example, I will now be taking streetwise and be more ready to try and get info from the less than reputable elements instead of being a guy that wouldn't think of talking to the local crime boss or street thug … )

Also, from that same party he does get plenty of experience running 'split' groups. Sadly, I'll admit that at least half the time it is my fault ... I lean to making a little complex plans that end up splitting us up ... However, there are other players (not specifically in the group) that I have played with that go out of their way to be annoying and split the group so they are the center of attention. In both cases it takes experience (which SWR does have) to keep the cats herded, the story running along, and make sure everyone has as much fun as possible.
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Dromdarr_Alark
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as kicking butts goes, it wasn't as much an attempt to play against the characters as to remind them that they aren't the biggest, baddest people in the galaxy. It was to show them that there are bigger fish, and to not get too cocky. I admit that I may have carried it too far, so I want to set up situations where they will succeed. But I also don't want them to become complacent. So there is a balance that must be maintained.

I have a few machinations that I might employ. one of which includes impounding the freighter.

Cheers!
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