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cheshire
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 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Not a 'lets wait to see if he his, then i declare a dodge roll.. |
Try to think of how your character would react. If someone pulls a blaster on him, is he going to start juking and diving behind crates, or is he going to wait until he gets blasted in the gut before deciding to take cover?
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Not a 'lets wait to see if he his, then i declare a dodge roll.. |
Try to think of how your character would react. If someone pulls a blaster on him, is he going to start juking and diving behind crates, or is he going to wait until he gets blasted in the gut before deciding to take cover? |
"Ow! That was my shoulder! What are you blind! I said shoot me in the gut and watch me dodge. Not shoot me in the shoulder. That's my shooting arm, ya Imperial goon. No wonder you guys are lsoing. You can't follow simple instructions." |
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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bigjawhite wrote:
| Quote: | | "You must decide whether or not you're dodging before the attacker makes his skill roll." |
Where does it say this? What I read was on pg. 79 of the Star Wars 2nd R&E
"Reaction Skills. When a character gets attacked, he can react by trying to get out of the way: the most common reaction skills are dodge, melee parry and brawling parry.
A character can wait until he's attacked to use a reaction skill."
On pg. 90 it says, "When using a reaction skill, the character makes the skill roll. The roll is the attacker's new difficulty number."
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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SWR&E p.79, "A character can wait until he's attacked to use a reaction skill."
"The character can use up any remaining actions for a reaction or have the reaction be an extra action, accepting the higher multiple action penalty for the rest of the round."
"Reaction skill roll is in effect for the rest of the round and replaces the original difficulty number."
SWR&E p.89, "(As explained in "The Rules," you can use a reaction skill at any time.)"
Hope that helps =)
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bigjawhite
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:47 am Post subject: |
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The rationale for declaring a dodge before a shooter rolls his dice to fire his blaster is clear. But, as I read the rules (1st edition), there is a contradiction. RAW: dodge is a reaction. It is also states that PCs must declare they are dodging before the shooter fires his blaster. Which one is it?
Using my example for above, the PC is a rebel. The GM is a stormtroooper. Both declare they are shooting.
Who declares first? PC or GM?
Suppose the PC declares he is shooting. Then, the GM declares he is shooting. Can the PC change his action to dodge or dodge and shoot?
If dodge is a reaction roll, can he dodge that first shot or subsequent attacks from other attackers? |
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Lane Arroway wrote: | | Quote: | | "You must decide whether or not you're dodging before the attacker makes his skill roll." |
What I read was on pg. 79 of the Star Wars 2nd R&E
"Reaction Skills. When a character gets attacked, he can react by trying to get out of the way: the most common reaction skills are dodge, melee parry and brawling parry.
A character can wait until he's attacked to use a reaction skill."
On pg. 90 it says, "When using a reaction skill, the character makes the skill roll. The roll is the attacker's new difficulty number." |
The player decides if he will roll a reaction skill roll after he finds out his character is being attacked, but before the GM rolls the dice (or reveals the die roll result). Does that help any?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. You can declare to dodge even after the DM has rolled the dice, but before you get told the result. So a DM who is lenient can (if he knows the shot is going to hit even with range and other mods) ask "are you sure you don't want to dodge the shot?"
| Quote: | Using my example for above, the PC is a rebel. The GM is a stormtroooper. Both declare they are shooting.
Who declares first? PC or GM?
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As to this part. It depends on who gets initiative.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Yup. You can declare to dodge even after the DM has rolled the dice, but before you get told the result. So a DM who is lenient can (if he knows the shot is going to hit even with range and other mods) ask "are you sure you don't want to dodge the shot?" |
You may not declare a dodge after a "hit" roll has been made per RAW.
There are two forms of dodge, "reactive dodge" and a "full action dodge".
Reactive Dodge
1. does not need to be announced until after the GM has announced you are being attacked but not after the attack roll is made.
2. You may dodge as an extra "free" action and pay the MAP.
3. You may "burn" the rest of your actions in the round to dodge, this does not incur the MAP penalty.
4. The dodge roll replaces the range difficulty number.
Full Round Dodge:
1. This must be announced at the beginning of your turn.
2. You may perform no other action (except the 1/2 move "free" action if the GM allows it as part of your dodge).
3. The dodge roll is added to the range difficulty number.
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bigjawhite
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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In first edition, there is no initiative. The action declared by the roller of the highest dice roll result occurs first.
I believe the dodge roll is added to the shooter's range TN.
Initiativeless combat may be causing my confusion. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bigjawhite wrote: | In first edition, there is no initiative. The action declared by the roller of the highest dice roll result occurs first.
I believe the dodge roll is added to the shooter's range TN.
Initiativeless combat may be causing my confusion. |
First edtion is what's causing the confusion. The rules were changed heavily from when they were first published. In fact, very shortly after being printed the rules got a major revamp.One of the key changes:
Full Dodge vs. Normal Dodge: In 1E dodging does add to the TN to be hit, but this was changed to the dodge roll replacing the normal difficulty. TO add the dodge tot the TN now a character has to do a "full dodge" meaning it is his only action for the round.
Also they introduced a new way of sequencing actions based on "level of haste", Basically yo gave up dice offf you rolls to go earlier in the round. This has since been replaced with an initiative system where the GM rolls against the player with the higher PER to see which side goes first.
Another change is dodges as reaction skills. In 1E dodges were reaction skills. In 2E reaction skills were dropped and dodges had to be declared. Apparently this was to make the game easier to run. In 2R&E reaction skills were returned to the game. |
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | SWR&E p.79, "A character can wait until he's attacked to use a reaction skill."
"The character can use up any remaining actions for a reaction or have the reaction be an extra action, accepting the higher multiple action penalty for the rest of the round."
"Reaction skill roll is in effect for the rest of the round and replaces the original difficulty number."
SWR&E p.89, "(As explained in "The Rules," you can use a reaction skill at any time.)"
Hope that helps =) |
Thanks, I knew this. My question was related to what bigjawhite wrote in quotes. I was wondering what rule and in what book he/she was quoting from. As far as I'm aware, the rule book doesn't "specifically" say that.
I'm not arguing against it, mind you, I'm just trying to be sure.
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bigjawhite
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I quoted dodge rules from the 1st edition core rulebook. And, I'm a he.
I like the revised rules for dodge. They seem fully portable into 1st edition.
Using PER for initiative is interesting. Initiativeless combat is quicker and feels chaotic in a good way. As a blaster fire fight or cantina brawl should be.
For those of you who run combat with rolling for initiative, how do you handle dodge? |
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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No initiative? How does that work? Every game I'm aware of has some way to track when players act. That does sound like a saloon shootout.
What I do is a little different. Most of the time my players have similiar if not the same PER, like 3D, so I have each of them roll. The player with the highest roll gets to determine if their team goes first or second. Also, the order of initiative starts with the highest roll and goes down. I feel this way everyone has a shot at going first.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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In my games I have the PCs each individually roll PER for their initiative order, I rolls for groups of minor NPCs and again individually for each major NPC. The initiative order stays in place until the scene changes in a significant way (a new group shows up, an earthquake, an explosion, etc).
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bigjawhite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Lane Arroway wrote: | No initiative? How does that work? Every game I'm aware of has some way to track when players act. That does sound like a saloon shootout.
What I do is a little different. Most of the time my players have similiar if not the same PER, like 3D, so I have each of them roll. The player with the highest roll gets to determine if their team goes first or second. Also, the order of initiative starts with the highest roll and goes down. I feel this way everyone has a shot at going first. |
In first edition, there is no initiative roll. The GM and PCs declare their actions and then roll. Highest dice score goes first.
Using the example of the blaster shootout, everyone rolls their blaster skill. Highest score shoots first. If he hits his target, the target is stunned at the very least. Targets that are hit are stunned at the very least and lose their action.
Fluid, yes. This is why I asked how you RancorPitians handle dodge using 1st edition RAW. |
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