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atgxtg
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 Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think the reason why they didn't add up the pips in the RAW was speed.
If you add the pips then it takes a bit longer to calculate what you have to roll. It's not too bad when you just have to add two things (like STR+ armor), but it gets worse if you have multiple things to add up, and/or a character spends an FP.
For example, for a character with STR 3D+2 wearing +2 pip armor...
By RAW his soak would be 3D+4, by variant 4D+1 -not too bad. But if he spends an FP, it's a bit faster to calculate 3D+2 doubled (6D+4) +2 armor for 6D+6 than to do it in pips (3D+2 = 11 pips x2 =22+2 armor = 24 pips or 8D soak).
In our group we had a clone trooper PC who would often slow everything down adding up all the modifiers to his blaster skill (armor penalty, armor DEX enhancements, weapon fire control, etc.) |
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griff
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I had all players add up all their adjusted stats ( Str+ armor Dex- armor Melee weapon damage) before the game started to avoid any slow down. And lets face it this isn't brain surgery or rocket science or even rocket surgery, it wouldn't take long to add things up.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Don't you mean it shouldn't take long to add up...
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griff
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yes "shouldn't". There is a difference between DIE CODE modifiers, and. DIE ROLL bonus. Die code modifier wold be armor adjustments, melee weapon damage, terrain grip boot modifier. These change the number of die to be rolled. The first section in the basic machanics of the rule book, die code will either be a round code- 3D or have a +1 pip of a +2 pip period. This is the logic of 3D+2 STR. plus scout armor of +2 equals 4D+1. Now there are bonuses that add to you final total die roll. A +5 bonus to a 3D+2 skill roll of 4,.5, and 2 plus 2 pips and a bonus of +5 would equal 18. I think most of these modifiers and bonuses are clear which ones they are. If not play it by ear.
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Last edited by griff on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | No, wait. It wasn't in the ISB intercepts from the SWAJ. |
No, you were right the first time. This is addressed in the ISB Intercepts column of SWAJ#15 (p. 80). The question was, does 4D+2 + 3D+1 = 8D or 7D+3 ? Eric S. Trautmann answered 7D+3. For what it's worth, this is considered a clarification of what was already RAW. It was stated back in the 1E era, but the 2E books just didn't have any definitive examples demonstrating this.
| cheshire wrote: | | I think that they said when there was an instance of 3D+2 and 1D+2, the result would be 4D+4. It seemed counter-intuitive to me, but that's where the chips lie. |
My intuition is counter to yours. IMHO, converting pips to dice is reading into it. If something tells me to add two things together, I take that as literal. My instinct is to just add them and not do anything else on top of that. 4D+3D=7D and 2+1=3, thus 4D+2 + 3D+1 = 7D+3.
And there are many examples through R&E that do not include conversion of pips above 2 to dice. Look through the Skills chapter, where you have modifiers of +3, +5, +10, etc. (not +1D, +1D+2, +3D+1, etc.). And these aren't just modifiers to difficulty number, they can also be modifiers to the character die roll.
The primary place you convert pips to dice is when improving character skills and equipment die codes. But that is permanently changing a value from one to another, not just increasing a die roll during play. I see those as two completely different type of addition.
But maybe I'm in the minority because I have a bachelor in mathematics. When I look at (4D+2)+(3D+1)=7D+3 I see an algebra equation. 8)
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | I had all players add up all their adjusted stats ( Str+ armor Dex- armor Melee weapon damage) before the game started to avoid any slow down. And lets face it this isn't brain surgery or rocket science or even rocket surgery, it wouldn't take long to add things up. |
You'd think that, but I've discovered that not everyone can do this sort of thing fast. Especially once MAPs factor in. In my campaign we often have to wait for one guy to do his math. Now the guy is an electrical engineer, and no dummy. But he's not fast. |
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griff
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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After reading through the 2E rule book looking at the skill section with all the bonuses, it clearly states that these are modifiers to the die rolls, not the die code. I never liked adding a bonus to the roll, sometime is turns the possibility of failure to an automatic success. I always liked adjusting the difficulty level
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | This is the logic of 3D+1 STR. plus scout armor of +2 equals 4D+1. |
By your way of doing things, wouldn't this be 4D? (rather than 4D+1?)
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griff
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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That should have been 3D+2 (bounty hunter STR) plus scout armor of +2 pips equals 4D+1
Thanks for picking that up. I'll edit the original posting.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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No problem at all. I'm one of those fussy "editor-types" that does lots of editing and proofreading for people (and I hope nobody takes it as being nitpicky). I figured you'd want to fix it, as it would make it easier for somebody coming along later reading these threads.
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