Specialization After Character Creation

[shootingwomprats]

Specialization after character creation. I don't like specializations anyways, but this was asked of me recently so I am looking into it.

R&E p.35, "Characters can learn a new skill or specialization by paying enough Character Points to advance it one pip above the attribute. There is no training time if the character "used the skill" in the last adventure. Otherwise, use the normal rules for training time."

R&E p.34, "If the character didn't use the skill or specialization in the last adventure, the character must spend time training. If the character has a "teacher" the training time is one day for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. If the character doesn't have a teacher and is training on his own, the training time is two days for every Character Point spent to improve a skill."

Example: Derpodnett has Mechanical 3D+2 and wants to learn Starfighter Piloting: A-Wing. This would cost 3 Character Points. If he piloted an A-Wing in the previous adventure he spends no time training. Otherwise 3 days training with a teacher, 6 days training without a teacher. When training is complete he now adds Starfighter Piloting: A-Wing 4D to his sheet.

No mention is made about the +1D bonus if adding a specialization after character creation. It also specifically states it as being a new skill specialization based off the attribute and not the skill if he had it (Starfighter Pilot).

This just seems wrong. I would think that a great deal of time and effort would need to be sunk into learning a specialization. I think the Advanced skill rules model this pretty well.

R&E p.34, "The Character Point cost to improve an advance skill is two times the number before the D."

R&E p.35, "A character with a teacher must spend one week training for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. A character without a teacher must spend two weeks training for every Character Points spent to improve the skill."

Example: Derpodnett has Mechanical 3D+2 and wants to learn Starfighter Piloting: A-Wing. This would cost 6 Character Points. Training time with a teacher would require 6 weeks, without a teacher 12 weeks. When training is complete he now adds Starfighter Piloting: A-Wing 4D to his sheet.

Thoughts?
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Don Diestler
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The D6 Podcast
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[garhkal]

The 1d above base skill for specialties at cha creation is imo a 'bonus' for taking it then, rather than learning it later in a character's career. But i have seen no DM make starting specialties be based on your attribute, they all have done it based on the skill.
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[Leon The Lion]

So you want specializations, which are intended to be easier, faster, and cheaper to learn (cost only half normal CP to rise) than the whole skill, precisely because they only cover a small part of the whole skill's utility, to actually become harder, more time consuming, and more expensive than the whole broad skill? Did I understand you correctly?

Well, it's your game, and you already said you don't like them, no idea why, so you should just go ahead. You will get the effect of nobody bothering to ever use them, which seem to be exactly what you intend (but if that's the case, why not forbid them outright instead of making them a trap?). But my opinion would be a resounding NO. But then I like specializations. If anything, I think they're too expensive still.
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[shootingwomprats]

Wow all this negativity and not a single bit of constructive criticism. Thanks guys, real f)3king help, really, thanks.

With the exception of the making the cost and training for a specialized skill the same as advanced skill mechanic, everything else was straight from the book.

1. Basing the specialization off the attribute.
2. No +1D bonus.
3. Training times.

All that was straight from the book. I do not follow your reasoning of a "trap". We are talking about specializations after character creation.

As for it taking so much time? Its a specialization. Just because its a narrow field does not mean you can be bad @ss with it in little or know time. If you focus, apply and dedicate to something then sure.

Why do I not like specialization? Its a muchkin rule, that's why. It adds nothing to the game and quickly can be unbalancing. Especially if used by a min/maxer or munchkin.
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
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[Leon The Lion]

Would you mind taking a deep breath instead of going all reactionary: "Oh no, they're criticizing me, how dare they!"?

Garhkal said nothing whatsoever which should warrant such a reaction.

As to me:

Please, look calmly at what you are doing and what I said.

This part:

[cheshire]

I'm just going to let things cool off for 24 hours and lock the thread. I'll be back to open it up tomorrow morning.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[DougRed4]

I already commented on this in the Google Groups (but haven't checked email to see the most recent responses).

I just wanted to add that I think Leon is 100% spot-on, and I couldn't agree more.

My thought is that if one doesn't like specializations, then they should simply ban them from their game (rather than make some sort of disincentive to take them such that they are horribly costed relative to other skills). I don't personally agree (and I'm looking at this from the perspective of a GM, as I don't even play this game anymore), nor do I agree that they are a 'min/max' or 'munchkin' thing to do/use.

I think they make a great addition to the game, but are very risky, as they extremely limit what a particular character can do. Amoz the bounty hunter might be really good with a Shotgun, but he's used it almost exclusively to everything else, such that when he picks up a blaster pistol, he's suddenly not a crack shot anymore.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[lurker]

[Centinull]

I think specializations work fine as is.

That being said, they are almost never used in my campaigns. No one really ever takes them.

With the sole exception of Martial Arts, which is often better than brawling, but not quite good enough to an Advanced Skill.

[shootingwomprats]

I think there has been a complete misunderstanding of what I was proposing. Here is a detailed write-up, rules from the book annotated and two examples. I hope this clarifies any misunderstanding.

Learning New Specializations After Character Creation
A specialization represents previously untapped natural ability or concentrated effort and study. When choosing a specialization the player must choose a narrow focus of study or make and model of equipment [R&E p.28].

Example: Scholar: Jedi Lore, Scholar: Clone Wars, Tactics: Imperial Army, Starfighter Piloting: A-Wing, Blaster: BlasTech DL-18.

Characters can learn new specializations by paying twice the amount of Character Points to advance a skill one pip above the default attribute/skill. Add 1D to the specialization skill [R&E p.28].

The character must spend time training. If the character has a "teacher" the training time is one day for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. If the character doesn't have a teacher and is training on his own, the training time is two days for every Character Point spent to improve the skill [R&E p.34]. Training can be stopped and picked up again at a later time without consequence [R&E p.34].

Characters can reduce their training time by spending one additional Character Point per day cut from the training time (The minimum training time is always one day) [R&E p.34].

Character Point cost to improve specializations is one-half the number before the D. [R&E p.34].

Up to five Character Points can be spent to improve a specialization skill roll [R&E p.84].

Example 1: Poodoo has Starfighter Pilot 5D and wants to specialize in Starfighter Pilot: A-Wing. The cost in Character Points is 5x2 = 10 and would require 10 days training with a teacher or 20 days on his own. At the end of training he now has the skill Starfighter Pilot: A-Wing 6D.

Example 2: Poodoo doesn't have Starfighter Pilot as a trained skill and has MEC 3D+2. The cost in Character Points is 3x2 = 6 and would require 6 days of training with a teacher or 12 days on his own. At the end of training he now has the skill Starfighter Pilot: A-Wing 4D+2.

The only difference between this and the original posting is the initial training time for learning a new specialization which was 1 week per Character Point if a teacher is available or 2 weeks per Character Point if no teacher is available. Looking at this now, I am wondering if what I want to model would be best done by ignoring the mechanic of doubling the initial Character Point cost for the specialization and only using the 1 or 2 week per Character Point initial training time.
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Don Diestler
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The D6 Podcast
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[garhkal]

[griff]

I have been know to give characters free specializations, but usually they are for specific languages or scholar skills. And I require scholars to have a specialization even without a base skill of scholar I just use knowledge as a base.
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[Centinull]

[Leon The Lion]

[shootingwomprats]

Now you understand why I was angry over your apparent attack of my idea to start with. What you were accusing me of was the farthest from what I wanted to do. This sort of thing happens a lot in text communications. I also did post it ad nearly 2AM my time and there was no reason I should have responded to any comments without having slept some first. I know that I get a little punchy and cranky if I am really tired. So anyways, thanks for posting that you understood what I was doing even if you do not wish to use it.
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
@swd6podcast, Twitter