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"he's too far out of range"
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crmcneill, I totally agree with your last post, and are splitting hairs here a little. You did say something very interesting that I never caught before, that the long ranges listed were maximum ranges for unstated reasons. Remembering that blaster bolts are just energy and gas that they can cause no damage past their maximum range listed, due to dissipation, can be one way look at this, or it could just to kept the game moving along without getting bogged down with what a blaster bolt does past its maximum range. Thanks for that insight.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
I came up with rules where a scope opens up the extreme range bracket, too.


I lean more towards allowing scopes to improve accuracy at long and extreme ranges, while still requiring some form of specialized training to hit beyond long range. Seems more realistic...


What another RPG did, which was very simple, and could be ported over to D6, was to double a weapon's medium and long ranges.

For instance, if a weapon has a range of
0-3/100/200/300 a scope would up this to 0-3/100/400/600.

You might want to have someone with Sniper (A) skill get a roll to see if he can triple the long range.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:

It sounds more to me like you are alluding to a shortcoming of the RAW, as the RAW's only mention of shooting beyond Long Range is a single sentence on page 88 that says a blaster pistol with a Long Range of 120 can't hit anything beyond 120 meters. WEG seems to have basically taken the idea of an effective range and turned it into a maximum range, beyond which the weapon is ineffective, for unstated reasons.


Perhaps blasters don't differentiate between max range and max usable range due to the gas/energy wraping around the bolt. so there is no difference between the 2, where as firearms are listed with their "max effective" ranges, but do have the further range bracket for max range.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I think it silly to say that a blaster with a range of 300 meters cannot hit something at 301 meters. Seems like there needs to be a dissipation instead of an abrupt stop.
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like minus one pip per five meters past max range. For a 5D blaster rifle that's 4D at 315 meters and 3D at 330 meters and 2D at 345 meters. These seems to still be a large dropoff. But there should be a damage drop after max range.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's about grade it based on the 'type' of weapon.
Pistols degrade 1 pip per 3M beyond max range, sporting pistols go 1 pip per 2. Heavies do 1 for 1. Carbines do 1 for 4M and rifles 1/5..?
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it is perfactly reasonable to have the dispensation rates based on weapon type, I would only object on the bases of the amount of different stats needed to keep track of it all.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or do it by percentage increments of the weapon's long range, say 2%, so a Blaster Rifle with a Long Range of 300 meters would lose 1 pip for every additional 6 meters.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could use the same rules for Firearms, only adding the pip to the difficulty of the shot for each additional increment, which would be in keeping with the distinction between the two. Energy weapons shoot line straight but degrade and lose cohesion over distance, while a bullet is affected by gravity but this can be countered by "lofting" the shot in a ballistic arc so that it maintains kinetic energy at a greater distance, but at the expense of a more complicated solution for making the shot.

Another potential sniper weapon for the SWU is the Needlebeamer mentioned in the Han Solo novel series. A needlebeamer would be a good fit for an energy sniper weapon, firing a high intensity blaster shot of very small diameter, which allows it to maintain cohesion over long distances at the cost of low damage inflicted...
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vanir
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We find when our Party hoofs it on a planet's surface for a few days, away from stores and starships, with varied and continuing combat encounters plus the mission objective, there's where you might find yourself reloading a blaster rifle. Or use up a 6hr power cell on a piece of technology, etc.

Other than that only really people with low shot items like heavy blaster pistols, firearms, bowcasters, etc. they could run out in regular combat encounters so need plenty of reloads on them.
But our Party likes those kinds of items. And powered melee weapons use finite power cells, unless they're hooked up to a power generator on some armour or something (mods our PCs use).

An energy pack can mishap too. Certain fields may drain them, even a lightsabre's power cell, it pays to keep at least one spare no matter whether you really need it.



With the SWU "blaster", the problem is like hyperdrives and lightsabres the canonical description doesn't really fit into any real physics or science, the technology is a fairy tale kind. Blasters fire bolts of energy and don't work like true lasers.
Actual lasers are very limited in a battlefield usage because the beam is coherent for tremendous ranges, ie. all the way to orbit and beyond for a shoulder handled item, but lasers refract through mediums as per fluid dynamics, including meteorological variation which it treats like entering a fluid medium.
In other words battlefields have hotspots and meteorological variations due to the firepower used these days, which sends lasers refracting off all over the place, with the same killing energy at 100km as it has at 100m. You can't really afford to have something that unpredictably dangerous in your war materiel, someone will point it an enemy tank and it'll refract and wipe out your own tanks, or some satellite that might be important, or the bridge of somebody's warship out at sea.

Blasters don't work like that at all. I'd say a rough explanation to substitute "beam coherence" is the stipulation that it is under conditions of energy-bolt degredation, you could say it just fizzles out at range limitation due to the type of energy weapon a blaster is. Which isn't a laser.
I'd also suggest the SWU term "laser cannon" is virtually interchangeable with "blaster" and is a "-cannon" because it again fires bolts of energy, not a true laser beam weapon.

There are beam weapons in equipment supplements. Those you could handle with laser-like rules to make them different and special.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
While it is perfactly reasonable to have the dispensation rates based on weapon type, I would only object on the bases of the amount of different stats needed to keep track of it all.


yeah. I think it would be easier to just have the damage drop off by 1D for a set interval. Maybe 1D per 10% of long range or some such. Thant makes it much easier to do in our heads.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could get behind that. And then I'd apply the same 1D per 10% beyond long-range to the difficulty to hit when using Firearms.
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griff
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

works for me. I for anything that keeps the math easy and the game fast.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
I could get behind that. And then I'd apply the same 1D per 10% beyond long-range to the difficulty to hit when using Firearms.


I was thinking of firearms when I wrote it. Not sure about blasters but I suppose it makes some sense. A more powerful blaster bolt might hold together longer or at least still have more kick left to it once it starts to disperse. Or it could just fizzle. Either way. We just don't know. But we never see a blaster bolt loose cohesion in the films. So lets go with it.

We might even consider upping damage 1D at close or point blank ranges. I know of at least one game that ups damage at close and drops it at long.
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Ral_Brelt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there's any real reason to up the damage when close for blasters. We're already talking about adding a benefit by allowing longer range. One doesn't add a benefit because one is already added. Never mind the fact that if you take a heavy pistol, jury rig it for 2 extra dice, then add this proposed extra die...you're talking about 8d at point blank..which means you've got a fair chance to damage a walker. That's like taking a 357 to an m1, walking up to within ten feet and actually damaging its armor on a scale that effects it more than paint scratches.
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