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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Endwyn wrote: | | Learning from someone consumed by the dark side, by itself, does not gain the student DSP's. It's in the practice and training of those "techniques" that are taught that the character gets the DSP's. Knowing something evil and useing it are two very different things. A character cannot choose what they are taught, but they can choose whether or not they will use that knowledge. |
That's very true. Plus, it's not a given that every little thing C'Baoth taught Luke was of the dark side. Perhaps the applications that C'Baoth used them in were, but probably the biggest indication of whether a DSP is warranted is intent. If Luke took the lessons from C'Baoth, meditated upon them, and came up with non-invasive and non-combatitive ways of achieving some of the same results (and I'm just speaking here from distant memory- it's been a LONG time since I read the trilogy. I might have to pick it back up!) then he might be able to use variants of some of those powers without risking DSPs. Granted, the ones that come immediately to mind are mostly cut-and-dried dark side, but I'm speaking more in theroeticals now for gamers, not about Luke's brush with C'Baoth. |
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hitmark
Cadet
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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i dont recall seeing any power that gives a dark side point from learning it.
but all powers does if used for dark reasons. some are even inherently dark and allways gives a point.
for the teacher getting points from teaching a student with that "problem". i see that as falling under the indirect part of the jedi code. basicly your allowing someone on the slipperly slope towards the dark side more power. basicly your helping the person. while your not activly using the dark side, your helping it grow...
however, learning from someone of the dark side dont have to mean your automaticaly going that way yourself. only your actions with your new knowledge is what counts.
basicly its kinda like democratic law is layed out, you have to do the act, not just think it. the jedi should be able to sense when he is headed towards the dark side. and should, if properly trained, be able to turn away from that path.
the hardest question anyone can ask themselfs is how to defeat evil without becoming evil. the road to the dark side is coverd in good intentions. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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It's funny. I could have sworn there was something in the rule book about learning a Dark side power, granted an DSP.... But cannot see anything, even on learning dark side powers.
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Vartax
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 203
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Dark side powers and points are funny that way. Most Jedis know the dark powers, but don't use them. As a gm I might be more inclined to let a Jedi learn dark powers without a master just because it is easier, and more seductive. |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:12 am Post subject: |
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To me, that makes little sense... It is ok to learn evil, but not use it???
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Vartax
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Yoda has injure kill (triology source book). The dark side is always there temping you to feed your anger or fear. A jedi must know the light side from the dark side. That doesn't mean every one should go out and learn every dark side skill there is. All it means is that it is easier to come by and use with out control. |
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hitmark
Cadet
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | To me, that makes little sense... It is ok to learn evil, but not use it??? |
its ok to know how to build a atomic bomb. but to go ahead and do it, thats a diffrent story... |
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Ejacobs
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
Location: Afghanistan...Again
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Now, would injure/kill be okay to use in self defense when attacked by a non-sentient creature like a Rancor? Not to kill mind you, but to choke so it is distracted and does not continue to attack party members which would definitly lead to their deaths.
Would that garner a DSP?
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Vartax
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| according to the rule in R&E using that force skill for any reason causes a dsp. |
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Ejacobs
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
Location: Afghanistan...Again
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Oh.
Do not question the ways of the Force. There is or is not. Do or do not. Black and White. There are no shades of Grey.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Vartax wrote: | | Yoda has injure kill (triology source book). The dark side is always there temping you to feed your anger or fear. A jedi must know the light side from the dark side. That doesn't mean every one should go out and learn every dark side skill there is. All it means is that it is easier to come by and use with out control. |
I personally think there are some cases where if you learn one power, you're only a hop, skip and jump away from learning another. Take Accelerate Healing (or even Accelerate Another's Healing.) If you know how to direct one's body- be it yours or someone else's- to heal itself, you could argure that you basically know how to direct one's body to hurt itself as well. This might account for individuals such as Yoda having Dark Side powers in the first place. Again, it all boils down to INTENT. If you intend to help the person, you're using Accelerate Another's Healing. If you intend to harm them, you're using Injure/Kill. It may be a big galaxy, but it's a small world. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I disagree that Intent has a lot to do with it... IMO some powers are so tied to the darkside, that even the purest intent gets perverted when using that power...
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KageRyu
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Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Vartax wrote: | | I agree even Luke learned from Master C'caoth in the thrawn trilogy, and he walked away with zero points. |
I agree with a student not nescessarily gaining DSP for learning from a master with DSP.
I disagree with the Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook's interpretation of events though. Having read the novels, the one pasage where Luke uses control mind on the enemy pilots to make them easier to kill reads in such a way as to make it clear Luke had a brush with the dark side (in game terms, earned at least 1 DSP). Perhaps he atoned for this later, but I feel the sourcebook either missed this or intentionally left it out. In fact, it was after that fighter engagement, when Luke used that power and comuned with C'both telepathically, that Luke began feeling suspicious of the Jedi Master. As I recall, Luke aproached C'both with caution after that.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Raising this thread from the dead more for the latter chatter going on than the initial thread question.
When a master trains a padawan and has a DSP or two (or more). Should that padawan have a chance of gaining one himself?
Do you feel Learning a dark side power should give a DSP, if using that power would grant one anyway? kind of like a "to learn it fully one must use it" mentality?
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't think the padawan should get a DSP because his master has a few. But it might might make the padawan more at risk if the master has thought the learner a falsehood about the nature of the Force.
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