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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: Armor Modification |
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I have been doing some looking into the idea of allowing players to modify armor. I was surprised when reading SWR&E that there were clear rules for modifying a blaster weapon but nothing for armor let alone melee weapons.
Doing more research I believe this was done on purpose. I do not think the RAW allow for armor modification. This is not to say that a player could not have armor designed for them. Requiring someone with Engineer: armor to design it, then someone to make it. This would be very expensive.
So I approach the community and ask them how they deal with players who want to modify armor.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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It depends on the type of armor you want to modify. There are clear examples of late 15th century armor being modified to accommodate a changing battlefield. But that was largely in terms of adding thickness to to resist primitive firearms.
So, are you looking to add resilience? Adding damage bonus? Adding gadgets or gizmos? What kind of mods do you want?
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Adding gadgets, gizomo's and additional armament is not the issue. That can all be done quite easily. The main sticking point with my player is that he wants to modify the armor to remove the DEX penalty. This something not included in RAW. I think this is on purpose.
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Tinman
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Joined: 26 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Armor Modification |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | I have been doing some looking into the idea of allowing players to modify armor. I was surprised when reading SWR&E that there were clear rules for modifying a blaster weapon but nothing for armor let alone melee weapons.
Doing more research I believe this was done on purpose. I do not think the RAW allow for armor modification. This is not to say that a player could not have armor designed for them. Requiring someone with Engineer: armor to design it, then someone to make it. This would be very expensive.
So I approach the community and ask them how they deal with players who want to modify armor. |
Rules for Jury-Rigging can be found in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide (pg. 2-3,) and that would cover some of what you're looking for as it applies to most types of equipment. The process described there is somewhat similar to improving space transports, as described in Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters, in the sense that it includes the possibility of item malfunction when the enhanced abilities of an improved item are used. The rules for Jury-Rigging were written for the first edition rules, but there's nothing that really seems to require any changes for use in second edition. (If you like, I'll paraphrase the rules included there, as Cracken's Rebel Field Guide is usually very difficult to find for sale.)
Extensively modifying armor to do things like remove inherent penalties or implement modifications which are beyond the scope of Jury-Rigging would probably require (A) Armor Engineering, as that's more along the lines of a redesign. Other than being listed with its prerequisite (4D Armor Repair) in Hideouts and Strongholds (pg. 3,) that advanced skill was never fully described by WEG, but it seems reasonable to assume that design and advanced modification of armor is what it would cover. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Adding gadgets, gizomo's and additional armament is not the issue. That can all be done quite easily. The main sticking point with my player is that he wants to modify the armor to remove the DEX penalty. This something not included in RAW. I think this is on purpose. |
Yeah, I'm leery about doing things that remove the dex penalty. The issue is that you don't see many people in Star Wars roaming around with armor on (other than the faceless minions wherein that facelessness was part of the story). There's got to be a reason for it. Most heroic characters don't want to deal with the dex penalties, and that sounds fine to me.
In reality custom suits of armor are far less cumbersome and provide quite a bit of dexterity. Emphasis on the word CUSTOM. Articulated armor might be hot, but it's not clumsy. But one of the reason why many noble born men could not become knights is because even though they were land owners, they still could not come up with the funds to commission a full suit of armor. It was just too expensive.
In game, if a character someone wanted custom armor with no dex penalty, it would have to pay a mint. I don't think that would come from just modding existing armor that came in off the shelf.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Adding gadgets, gizomo's and additional armament is not the issue. That can all be done quite easily. The main sticking point with my player is that he wants to modify the armor to remove the DEX penalty. This something not included in RAW. I think this is on purpose. |
Our sparks group has a rule for this we did. Basically take the # before the D of the Dex penalty and add 3 to that, and that is how many CP it costs to reduce it one pip. So a suit that gave a 1d dex penalty would take 4cp to reduce it to +2, then 4 more to +1 then 4 more to get rid of it entirely. Each mod takes 1 session (adventure). So 12cp overall for a 1d dex 27cp for a 2d penalty..
If just having the CP cost is not enough for you, you could link it to the armor repair roll and cost.
Removing a penalty a pip at a time takes 15% of the armor's cost in equipment and a moderate roll for the first pip, 20%, and a diff roll for the 2nd pip and 25% and a v.diff roll for the last pip. Any additional pips add 5% to the cost and 5 to the difficulty # for the armor repair roll, in addition to the CP cost.
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Centinull
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: |
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1st edition let you modify pretty much everything with CP.
Second edition had that chart for modifications up to 1D+2.
I've been allowing players to increase protection and reduce Dex penalties, separately of course, by a max of 1D+2, using the same cost and difficulty progression as the weapon upgrades. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | shootingwomprats wrote: | | Adding gadgets, gizomo's and additional armament is not the issue. That can all be done quite easily. The main sticking point with my player is that he wants to modify the armor to remove the DEX penalty. This something not included in RAW. I think this is on purpose. |
Our sparks group has a rule for this we did. Basically take the # before the D of the Dex penalty and add 3 to that, and that is how many CP it costs to reduce it one pip. So a suit that gave a 1d dex penalty would take 4cp to reduce it to +2, then 4 more to +1 then 4 more to get rid of it entirely. Each mod takes 1 session (adventure). So 12cp overall for a 1d dex 27cp for a 2d penalty..
If just having the CP cost is not enough for you, you could link it to the armor repair roll and cost.
Removing a penalty a pip at a time takes 15% of the armor's cost in equipment and a moderate roll for the first pip, 20%, and a diff roll for the 2nd pip and 25% and a v.diff roll for the last pip. Any additional pips add 5% to the cost and 5 to the difficulty # for the armor repair roll, in addition to the CP cost. |
Hmm... now this is an interesting idea.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks chesh. I will pass that on to the council.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thanks chesh. I will pass that on to the council. |
A council that has yet to respond to any of I or Daniel's attempts to contact them. This does not bode well when we discuss them next week in SWR podcast. I think that 2+ weeks is more than sufficient time for someone to respond.
Also, I was unable to find any Yahoo group for them. Probably because it is not for public viewing?
[edit] I tried another search string and found the Yahoo Group which is listed as "Spark Force 7".
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: |
A council that has yet to respond to any of I or Daniel's attempts to contact them. This does not bode well when we discuss them next week in SWR podcast. I think that 2+ weeks is more than sufficient time for someone to respond.
Also, I was unable to find any Yahoo group for them. Probably because it is not for public viewing?
[edit] I tried another search string and found the Yahoo Group which is listed as "Spark Force 7". |
I wouldn't take it too personally. I get the impression that Sparks is kind of like the Masons of D6. Everyone knows someone who belongs, but ya never really know what's goin' on in there.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I wouldn't take it too personally. I get the impression that Sparks is kind of like the Masons of D6. Everyone knows someone who belongs, but ya never really know what's goin' on in there. |
No worries. My and Daniel's "review" of them will be as impartial as possible and include only the facts as we currently have them concerning the group, their methods, motivations and ability to get along and welcome others.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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In our group, we just use the rules for armor upgrading to reduce the DEX penalty. Instead of applying the bonus to the armor rating, we just let people apply it to the DEX penalty.
It's a simple game mechanic, and forces the PC to trade off between more protection or reduced DEX penalty. |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks chesh. I will pass that on to the council. |
A council that has yet to respond to any of I or Daniel's attempts to contact them. This does not bode well when we discuss them next week in SWR podcast. I think that 2+ weeks is more than sufficient time for someone to respond.
Also, I was unable to find any Yahoo group for them. Probably because it is not for public viewing?
[edit] I tried another search string and found the Yahoo Group which is listed as "Spark Force 7". |
That's it.. But its not public view allowed.
I have re=sent a request for info as to what's going on with your request to speak with the council to one of my few friends ON it (james medley) to see what's going on.
| Quote: | | No worries. My and Daniel's "review" of them will be as impartial as possible and include only the facts as we currently have them concerning the group, their methods, motivations and ability to get along and welcome others. |
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