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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject: Ship Modifications |
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Hey all of you wise and knowledgeable denizens of the Pit!
One of my players is more familiar with Wizard's SAGA edition, and commented that there's a few things that one can do in that system that he wasn't sure could be done with D6. He's been going through the Tramp Freighters book, and is wondering about the following:
- Installing new equipment for ship intelligence (i.e. targeting system/fire control), sensors, and maneuvering thrusters
- Installing combat thrusters on small capital ships to have them be treated like starfighters
- Installing slave circuits to reduce crew requirements
Does anybody know of any official (or even alternate) rules that cover any of these things?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the equipment source books (gundarks and galadiniums) have tech for slave circuitry, but usually those are simple devices that get the ship ready while you are enroute to it, or have it fly a simple path TO you. Not the more complicated slave rigging we heard of was on the Katana fleet.
As for 'combat thrusters'.. All ships can increase their maneuverability rating, 1d+2 above base model.
Same with fire control
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Dromdarr_Alark
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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All systems with a die code can be improved 1 pip at a time up to +1D+2 above the starting stat.
Roll repair as normal to improve the stat (sensors, fire control), and flavor-text the result.
As far as adding droid brains to reduce crew requirement, I would make something up that involves replacing cargo space or crew quarters with computers and more generators. I would also add quirks to the ship, because there would be multiple droid brains functioning at the same time.
Anything that would make a capital ship function like a starfighter should be very rare and VERY expensive - and also have a limited compatibility with certain makes and models.
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:33 am Post subject: |
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space transports modification uses the space transports repair skill for the purposes of 'jury-rigging' components for increased performance as outlined in the GG.
What isn't discussed is starship engineering skills and how those are used to achieve specific performance targets.
Some house rules we came up with:
1. starfighters and capital ships can be modified using the same rules as tramp freighters but use the relevent engineering (A) skill and not the repair skill. This is because as warships they are already designed for maximum performance for their mission profiles, and require a re-engineering process to improve or update this performance to the latest standards in technology design.
2. with ubiquitous space transports (scoutships and freighters generally) the mishap modifier for ship modification can be cancelled by using the engineering (A) skill instead of repair and adding a +5 modifier and a skeleton crew rating for the original crew complement. For each additional crewmember added the skeleton difficulty is reduced by +5 to offset further modifications.
eg. I hot up my YT-1300 with a sublight boost of 3 space units rating (for 7 total), and reinforce the hull rating by a full dice (3 pips modification).
My mishap modifiers are normally +2 for each but I can remove mishap modifiers for both by using (A) Space Transports Engineering instead of Space Transports Repair, and re-engineer the ship specifically for these modifications, at a structural and basic equipment level (uprated powercore, boost thrusters, more powerful particle shield generators, etc.), but the 1-2 crew YT-1300 now becomes 2 crew with a skeleton of 1/+20 (+5 for each level of mishap upon each modification cumulative); or I can increase crew to 3 with skeleton 1/+15 or 2/+10. The extra crew are required to regulate power and other systems operation so that the modifications essentially run troublefree, but the proper way to do this is without jury rigging systems but re-engineering them, and increasing crew ratings to compensate more complicated/powerful starships than prior to the modifications.
You basically do the same thing with starfighters and capital ships, but with starfighters you have to rebuild the whole thing as a new prototype to keep the same (1) crew/pilot and with capital ships you adjust consumables to accommodation substantial crew increase when modifying (refitting) a warship as another class of warship. You can make a strike cruiser faster, but the reduction in consumables range might very well turn a combat-cruiser into a ridiculously crew-heavy frigate in terms of how to deploy it in a usable fashion. |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks all, I really appreciate it! 
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | As far as adding droid brains to reduce crew requirement, I would make something up that involves replacing cargo space or crew quarters with computers and more generators. I would also add quirks to the ship, because there would be multiple droid brains functioning at the same time. |
While it could certainly incur more cost, I'd think the possible quirks could be greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated, by purchasing the droid brains from the same manufacturer, and having them installed and synched by techs from said manufacturer. I would figure such individuals to have the appropriate advanced skills (A), which should mean, IMHO, they're well-versed enough in making their products work with ships of all different manufactures, so it'll be done right the first time, rather than jury-rigged by the character themselves. Of course, if the characters have the appropriate engineering (A) skills, I'd think their difficulty would be much less to keep such quirks out of their systems.
However, a ship with several, completely different droid brains operating in tandem, without the benefit of a properly trained engineer, is GONNA have...issues, if not full-blown psychoses...lol |
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Dromdarr_Alark
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | As far as adding droid brains to reduce crew requirement, I would make something up that involves replacing cargo space or crew quarters with computers and more generators. I would also add quirks to the ship, because there would be multiple droid brains functioning at the same time. |
While it could certainly incur more cost, I'd think the possible quirks could be greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated, by purchasing the droid brains from the same manufacturer, and having them installed and synched by techs from said manufacturer. I would figure such individuals to have the appropriate advanced skills (A), which should mean, IMHO, they're well-versed enough in making their products work with ships of all different manufactures, so it'll be done right the first time, rather than jury-rigged by the character themselves. Of course, if the characters have the appropriate engineering (A) skills, I'd think their difficulty would be much less to keep such quirks out of their systems.
However, a ship with several, completely different droid brains operating in tandem, without the benefit of a properly trained engineer, is GONNA have...issues, if not full-blown psychoses...lol |
Agreed!
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I've handled a couple of these things in the Starships of the Galaxy Conversion guide. At least in the second version with the weg-looking front cover. The first pdf with no cover had none of the starship equipment.
I share concerns for having capital ships being treated as starfighters. The scale system is admittedly wonky in the R&E, but it sounds like a recipe for instant vaporization for a smaller scale ship if the capital ships can regularly ignore the scaling rules.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely sounds like something to be cautious with! In my last game our PCs were chased in their capital-scale ship by a bounty hunter nemesis in a starfighter-scale one. That bounty hunter swiftly learned that he couldn't do jack agains the much bigger ship. And while it was extremely difficult for the larger ship to hit him, all it would take was a single lucky strike! 
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | As far as adding droid brains to reduce crew requirement, I would make something up that involves replacing cargo space or crew quarters with computers and more generators. I would also add quirks to the ship, because there would be multiple droid brains functioning at the same time. |
While it could certainly incur more cost, I'd think the possible quirks could be greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated, by purchasing the droid brains from the same manufacturer, and having them installed and synched by techs from said manufacturer. I would figure such individuals to have the appropriate advanced skills (A), which should mean, IMHO, they're well-versed enough in making their products work with ships of all different manufactures, so it'll be done right the first time, rather than jury-rigged by the character themselves. Of course, if the characters have the appropriate engineering (A) skills, I'd think their difficulty would be much less to keep such quirks out of their systems.
However, a ship with several, completely different droid brains operating in tandem, without the benefit of a properly trained engineer, is GONNA have...issues, if not full-blown psychoses...lol |
Presumably people do use droids to help crew and pilot ships, it's noted to be a common use of R2 models even when they're not socketed into starfighters, but likely find it more feasible to use specially designed or programmed droids rather than just installing droid brains into different systems. (Maintenance techs probably find it much less hassle, to be sure.) At least one model of droid has actually been designed as a pilot, the Industrial Automaton V6 Pilot Droid (Cynabar's pg. 72) and uses an attachment called a "Starship interface jack" (apparently distinct from a Scomp-Link) to interface directly with the ship's control systems for this purpose. Programming a droid for piloting (or any other ship operation) is as simple as installing the appropriate SkillWare, though such programming is often heavily restricted or requires fees and permits for SkillWare involving anything other than ship maintenance (Cyanbar's pg. 25-26.) Also, given the common cultural bias towards droids, most people would probably take an extremely dim view of anyone using one as a gunner. IA's PG-5 Gunnery Droid may have been a market failure for more than its technical issues..
It's also been noted that using a droid as a pilot (legally) usually requires some pretty expensive and difficult-to-get permits. Inspectors would likely start asking some very pointed questions if, for instance, they noticed that you had a V6 on board but didn't have the appropriate permit.
Finally, unless the Life Preservation Programming is removed (which is far from an easy task, not to mention less than wise) droids (and presumably droid brains) put into ship operations functions which would cause their actions to place organics at risk would probably be less than ideal in combat situations and overly cautious worrywarts even during normal functions ("Sir, the ship won't let us take off until we've had that life support systems overhaul we're overdue for..") |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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That's awesome stuff, Tinman. Thanks!
And welcome to the Rancor Pit! 
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: |
Finally, unless the Life Preservation Programming is removed (which is far from an easy task, not to mention less than wise) droids (and presumably droid brains) put into ship operations functions which would cause their actions to place organics at risk would probably be less than ideal in combat situations and overly cautious worrywarts even during normal functions ("Sir, the ship won't let us take off until we've had that life support systems overhaul we're overdue for..") |
I've used that as complications before as well as flavor issues for custom ships or '2nd hand' vessels.
One PC in our Sparks campaign had me do a Personal initiative for him to find a ship similar to the one Kyle Kartan used in the Dark forces pc/console games, so i had one.. BUT it had a semi sentient droid brain named Lucinda in it, and she is very picky! The player has hammed that up real good too!
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Tinman
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I've used that as complications before as well as flavor issues for custom ships or '2nd hand' vessels.
One PC in our Sparks campaign had me do a Personal initiative for him to find a ship similar to the one Kyle Kartan used in the Dark forces pc/console games, so i had one.. BUT it had a semi sentient droid brain named Lucinda in it, and she is very picky! The player has hammed that up real good too! |
Haha! One of the problems with using a droid brain in that way is that they ARE artificial intelligences, which has benefits and drawbacks. On one hand, they are capable of learning and getting better at things.. on the other hand, they eventually do develop quirks and personalities. You just can't have one without the other either, as giving a droid a memory wipe to deal with an annoying personality also erases any non-hardwired SkillWare (resets the droid's skills back to stock values.) While it's POSSIBLE to hardwire SkillWare into a droid so it's not erased each time the droid is memory wiped, it's one of the most difficult things one can do in terms of droid programming (+30 to difficulty) and you'll still lose anything the droid learns on its own.
Another thing to consider is that, unless you're willing to design a droid personality from scratch or pay someone else to do it (good luck finding someone with that sort of skill or paying them what they'd likely ask once you do) a droid brain is going to consider any machinery it's permanently connected to its "body." An AI psychologist would probably have a field day studying the effects of that, considering what sort of mayhem most players put their ships through. |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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That's a really excellent point, Tinman! And it's one I'll keep in mind if our PCs ever do end up with any kind of droid brains inside of any of their ships!
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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That whole wiping memory issue is also a good way to force the party to spend oodles of cash on their droids.. Either to set up the skills inputted as hardwired, OR to have a 'hidden memory spot' they can copy themselves to, so they can avoid memory wipes.
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