Neuro toxins.. Rules anywhere?

[garhkal]

In the novel, Wedge's Gambit, we are introduced to a nerve agent that can kill (Fex-3) that was being used by the imps in their construction droids command centers, to ensure people didn't take them over. Gands (and given) being non air breathers would be 'imune'.
But has anyone seen game stats for them?

Would they be a stamina roll against a set difficulty every 'time period' (whether minutes, rounds or other)?
Increasing difficulty?
Standard soak (Str) roll?
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[jmanski]

Rules of Engagement has Fex-M3 cannisters for the CSPL launcher with the following description:
"Highly toxic nerve gas. Effective if in contact with exposed tissues. Damage 5D."
Edit*
After reading the description, it says "Stormtroopers are known to use even the deadliest canister loads at short range. Their armor is generally impervious to gas attacks."

That's all I got.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[garhkal]

So a "Highly toxic" nerve agent is as damaging as a blaster rifle? Me thinks the powers that be were smoking some wakky bakky when they wrote that.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Tupteq]

[garhkal]

I was thinking of something more like 'stamina check of v.easy on the first round exposed to avoid symptoms.
Going up to easy the 2nd and 3rd rounds, moderate for R4-5, difficult for R6-7, very difficult for R8-9 and heroic thereafter.
Fail a roll by 1-4, and you get sluggish (-1d to all actions), 5-8 makes the sluggishness be 2d, 9-12, 3d sluggishness and so on. Dex or str get to 0d, and you pass out.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[jmanski]

Make it simple: 4d or 5d per round. Incapacitation = pass out.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[atgxtg]

I saw another nerve agent in the grenade section of the complies stats the other day while we were playing. I believe it did damage over multiple rounds, and the "damage" it did came off of DEX and/or STR. If either hit 0 the character died.


I'll do a search tonight.

[atgxtg]

I searched through the Complied Weapons book for never agents and neurotoxins and found the following:


Czerka Chemical Load Grenade (P.94)
Fax-M3: Deadly nerve toxin aerosol. Targets must make a
Difficult stamina roll or suffer -2D to Strength.

BlasTech CSPL-12 “Caspel” (p. 84)
Fex-M3: Nerve gas, 5D damage, death.

Locris Syndicates Model RDP-12 Rocket Launcher (P.85)
Game Notes: In addition to the stun damage taken
from the Type-12B capsule due to the kinetic energy on
impact, character must make a Difficult stamina roll or
be incapacitated by the FGA-583 nerve agent. A successful
roll still results in -1D to all actions for the next six rounds
(penalties are cumulative for multiple hits).

Kalvarek Consolidated Arms MM9 Rocket System (p.88)
Rocket with FGA-583 Nerve Toxin
Damage: 3D on impact; if the weapon does damage, target
must make a Difficult stamina roll or suffer a -2D Strength
penalty.


H’gartha Poison: The kit contains a small quantityof h’gartha liquid neurotoxin; each vial is sufficient to kill a single target on contact (causes death within two rounds.
There is no known antidote save bacta immersion, though
once removed from the bacta the poison again takes effect).
The neurotoxin is extremely difficult to detect, even by
medical scanners; increase the difficulty of (A) medicine or
first aid checks by two levels if the examiner is attempting
to locate traces of the poison within the victim.

Neural Inhibitor (p.69)
6D (stun damage from neurotoxins)
Game Notes: If the neurotoxin achieves an unconscious
result, the victim must make a Difficult stamina rolls
after five minutes to revive. After another five minutes,
the difficulty is reduced to Moderate. After another
two minutes, the difficulty to revive is Easy. Targets
weighing over 150 kilograms reduce the difficulty to revive
by one level (Difficult becomes Moderate) and make stamina
rolls at four minutes, three minutes and one minute; targets
over 300 kilograms reduce the difficulty to revive by two
levels (Difficult becomes Easy) and make stamina rolls at
two minutes, one minute and one minute.

[atgxtg]

It worth noting that in several cases the same nerve agent has different effects. I suppose this could be attributed to different weapons using different dosage.

It might be best if we did up a standardized damage table for toxins, probably by general type. Maybe I can throw something together based on LD50 tables.

[garhkal]

But most as i predicted are based on stamina..
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[atgxtg]

[vanir]

Actual neurotoxins are ridiculously lethal, most of the venomous biteys Australia is infamous for are so deadly because they all inject a neurotoxin. Most Australian snakes are related to sea snakes, which use lethal neurotoxins because they incapacitate almost immediately and cause death soon after, so fish which are faster in water than a sea snake can't escape, once bitten they're paralyzed immediately and the snake gets a meal.

Haemotoxins are what most dangerous land snakes like cobra and rattlers use, because it breaks down internal tissues as it kills for easier digestion by the snake. It is preferred by the predator if there was a choice, but neurotoxin is nature's answer to necessity when the typical prey can easily escape the predator.

Similarly the arrow tree frog with the most toxic poison found on any land animal uses a neurotoxin because it literally paralyzes a predator before they finish biting down on it. Lick one of those and you'll be dead with it still in your mouth.

The Australian Fierce snake (also called Eastern Taipan) has a neurotoxin so deadly that any amount of residue on a dry bite (snakes often bite without envenomation when defending themselves), a microscopic amount of venom on its fangs kills just as effectively as any other amount, any of the venom whatsoever in the blood stream kills in 20 minutes maximum, guaranteed.
The box jellyfish works on the sea snake theory, paralyzation before the prey has a chance to escape. Listed time of death from stinging for a human is 2-20 minutes but the record is 20 seconds, a diver who died right beside the boat when stung before his mates could drag him back in.

Neurotoxins do kill very surely, very quickly, but the primary thing they do is paralyze immediately.
Powerful haemotoxins can also kill surely and quickly, certain cobra will kill you as quick as a Taipan, but the Taipan will put you down immediately with the first bite (and they like to bite 20-30 times when angry and at 15ft have the venom stores for it too), you'll still be able to try to fight the cobra once bitten even though it's a losing prospect, and you're bleeding from all your orifices halfway through it.

Spiders are especially bad, their venom is extremely complicated and contains both neurotoxins and haemotoxins and also parasitic bacteriae, so you kind of get hit with everything from paralyzation to melting from the inside and necrosis just for good measure. But luckily spider venom is so genetically complicated it actually has completely different effects by species to the type of creature bitten, so a spider lethal to humans like the Funnel Web is actually harmless to things like cats and dogs, and some other really nasty looking spiders would kill a rhino but are harmless to primates. Except for the necrosis, the bugs in spider venom will get anything.
A venom expert will always say it is better to get bit by a lethal snake than a harmless spider, because a month later you might need an amputation for that spider bite but most lethal snakes we have totally effective antivenom for if you get medical attention quick, and it's over on the day.

[garhkal]

So if they are that Lethal, how should they be represented for a SW game? 5d damage? 7d?
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[Ral_Brelt]

I would think that Str would make more sense than stamina to resist as a person can increase their stamina through physical training. Granted RAW says you can train up your attributes as well, but these toxins dont become less effective because you can run a 4:40 mile. I can see the argument that its a Str based skill, but I still think it should revert to an attribute only check.
That being said, I dont think a bucket load of dice for damage would work quite as well as a reduction to resist. Say a type 1 poison would reduce your resistance roll by 2 pips, where as a type 5 would take off 3 dice. I suggest this because it would make it more sinister seeming to the PCs, would ramp up the effectiveness and would make it a bit faster in my opinion.

[atgxtg]