Poss new sith power.. Jun Mao

[garhkal]

This nasty sith power, lost for many ages was rediscovered by one of Vader's inquisitors during the height of the rebellion. When used, it allows the dark sider to not just taunt the enemy akin to Dun moch, but actually slowly drags them to the dark side itself.

This is a Cont/sense/alter power
Control roll is 20 + prox + relationship
Sense is 10 + relationship
Alter is 15 + relationship

When used on an opposing force user replace the target # with an opposed control roll vice a base 20 difficulty for the control roll.

If the power is successfully used, it must be maintained. Each round at the sith's inititiave he rolls his willpower against the Target's willpower, subtracting all applicable MAPS including the ones for keeping this power up. If he gets higher than the target, each 3 over gives the target one {temp} Dark side pip. A target can gain 1 pip per D in either Perception or control (which ever is higher). Once they hit that #, it converts over to a full Dark side point. Each time a DSP is gained, the target must roll 1d6 as normal.

If the target ever takes a wound, his willpower roll is penalized by 2d. If he is ever knocked out though the power can no longer be used.

If the sith drops the power/is hit causing it to drop, the target weens off the DSP pips he has gained at 1 / round per D in perception, though any full Dark side points gained must be attoned for.

EG Sith Simon targets PC jedi John.
Round 2 of the battle is going well for the sith and he see's jedi John is worthy of being captured for the ranks of vader's swelling Dark adepts.
So he activates this power barely succeeding though on the rolls to bring it up.

In round 3, he rolls his willpower (3d+2 after the MAPS for this, LSC, and his attack and parry are removed) while PC jedi John rolls 2d+2 (after his MAPS are removed). He wins by 7, so jedi john gains 2 dark side pips. Since he has a 7d control (and 3d+1 perception), he must gain 5 more pips before he gains a DSP.

In round 4, the dark sider hits through his LS defense, and causes jedi john a wound, which penalizes his willpower roll by 2d, so he is effectively down to just +2. His willpower roll comes up an 11, so he wins by 9, giving jedi john 3 more pips of taint.

Round 4 comes and jedi john loses yet again gaining a whapping 4 more pips. Since this pushes him above the 7 cap, he turns in 7 of the pips he has for a full on DSP, carrying over the remaining pips (in this case 2)

In round 5, he wins the roll so gains no new pips, but still has failed to damage the sith, so the power stays up.

In round 6 he loses the roll gaining 3 more pips bringing his tally to 5. 2 more and he gains another DSP, and is now at risk of turning.

Similar to the Sith power, force sink, 3 consecutive rounds of the target Winning the willpower contest, forces a drop of the power.



So.. like or not?
Too evil or not??
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Esoomian]

I think it has possibilities but I don't see it as having enough risk to the Dark-sider using it.

Powers that subsume a person's moral compass or strip away Force Points rely on a prolonged contact with the target's mind/psyche/will/whatever. That sort of thing should contain more risks than dropping the power otherwise there is no reason not to try it if you see Joe Jedi walking by and you're hidden where he can't see you.

You're replacing physical combat (and the risks it has) with mental/spiritual combat. It seems unbalanced for a power that can change the very soul of an entity has no real downsides.
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[garhkal]

What sort of downsides should it have?? No other force powers that affect the mind/psyche have any such as control mind, or affect mind? Other than the all incompassing you automatically gain a DSP if CM is used to cause evil/harm..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Esoomian]

Control mind and Affect mind don't permanently corrupt a character. They allow you to command/influence a character but it is possible that a cunning player may get some leeway in interpreting those commands/influences and once the influence is gone they don’t have a lingering taint to rid themselves of.

For one I don’t really understand how a player can atone for something they didn’t do. If they end up with a Dark Side Point because of this but they didn’t actually do anything evil what is it exactly they are atoning for?

I tend to view Dark Side Points (or lack thereof) as on facet of a character’s psyche and I would want a character with Dark Side Points to act differently in a given situation to the exact same character without Dark Side Points. I guess I see them as something of a moral compass. If a player wants to risk their morals by playing with the Dark Side that is their business the risks are great but potentially so are the rewards if you can walk the fine line between good and evil. However to simply create a power that can give Dark Side Points to others with little or no risk to oneself seems to cheapen the concept of moral choice. I would liken it to creating a power that alters the way a character thinks, permanently.

It comes down to (for me) what I view as GM domain and player domain.

GMs control the entire universe except for the player’s characters. The players control their characters. The way a character thinks is the domain of the player and while the GM can impose on it with powers like control mind and affect mind at some point the character is usually returned to the player’s control to think and act as he did before.

If I was to use this power I would want significant risks to the Dark Sider to discourage stealing characters by degrees. I would want the Dark Sider to have to be very confident he could completely corrupt a character before he even tried. Losing a character to a powerful foe is part of roleplaying in an epic universe. Losing a character to a ‘Why not’ type action and a roll of a 1 on a D6 when the first Dark Side Point seems akin to making a character roll to walk through a refresher station, letting the one on the wild dice mean slipping on a bar of soap and then the wild dice kill the character with a terrible soak and an unfeasibly high damage roll.

It is also worth considering that this power makes a reasonably sized group of moderate opponents much more dangerous as they could all use this power on one player causing him to rack up Dark Side pips very quickly.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.

[garhkal]

The way i see this power is forcing you to draw on your negative emotions, thereby tainting what you are doing. The more taint you get the closer to the dark side you become.

Grimace over on the holonet suggested that cause of that negative emotions especially anger, that the longer it is held up on someone, the stronger they get by virtue of their anger coming to the forefront, by having a +1 pip applied to the attack roll of the pc each round this lasts.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Esoomian]

That seems better than just giving DSPips especially if you get to tell the player they're getting angrier and angrier but I think there should still be a mechanic for the player to actively resist.

So they can accept the rage and take the +1 to their attack rolls or they can fight the rage and roll willpower (or any other applicable skill for calming down) and each point over a certain threshold removes a DSPip (this can result in a DSP removal if it is done in the same round that the DSP is gained provided the DSP is gained due to the use of this power).

Even then I think there should be some sort of danger to the Darksider.

What I was worried about was that a powerful Darksider could just sit in a spaceport cantina corrupting people for no other reason than 'Because I can.' While giving someone a rising feeling of rage does help them learn something external is influencing them it still isn't enough to stop people just turning random NPCs to the Dark Side for fun.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.

[Bren]

[garhkal]

That might be a good catch.. Though i would have it be more a critical failure, than just any failure.

[garhkal]

Bringing this power back up.

What would be some good prerequisites to use it?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Naaman]

This sounds like what the emperor used on Luke, and possible on Anakin in the prequel. In either case, I do prefer the idea of incorporating risk to the user.

A couple of possibilities: if the user fails the opposed roll by a certtain amount, the target gains a some CPs or possibly a FP, depending on the dramatic altitude of the situation. (The target is actively resisting the negative emotions, and in succeeding, learns something about himself/matures). Also, imposing a limit on how/when this power can be used could be good. For example, once a character resists its effects, he is immune to repeat attempts from that same user until user (for example) gains 1 whole D in the appropriate Force skills.

As for prereqs, this is offf the top of my head, so I may be throwing in powers from other sources:

Cause Fear
Feed on Dark Side
Affect Mind
Projective Telepathy
Inflict Pain

[garhkal]

OK, first rewrite time.
Jun Mao
This is a Cont/sense/alter power
Control roll is 20 + prox + relationship
Sense is 10 + relationship
Alter is 15 + relationship
Requires: feed on dark side, cause fear, affect mind, projective telepathy and waves of darkness

When used on an opposing force user replace the base target # with an opposed control roll vice a base 20 difficulty for the control roll. Proximity and relationship still modify

If the power is successfully used, it must be maintained. Each round at the sith's inititiave he rolls his willpower against the Target's willpower, subtracting all applicable MAPS including the ones for keeping this power up. If he gets higher than the target, each 3 over gives the target one Temporary dark side point. A target can gain 1 TDSP per D in either Perception or control (which ever is higher). Once they hit that #, it converts over to a full Dark side point. Each time a DSP is gained, the target must roll 1d6 as normal.

If the target ever takes a wound, his willpower roll is penalized by 2d. If he is ever knocked out the power instantly drops, and any TDSPs are eliminated (full dsps stay).

If the sith drops the power/is hit causing it to drop, the target weens off the DSP pips he has gained at 1 / round per D in perception, though any full Dark side points gained must be attoned for.

Using this power though has a risk, in that the target, while being forced to 'give into their anger, gains a +1 to hit/damage for every TDSP and 1D for every full DSP they have so far earned... Once they turn though this bonus drops.

EG Sith Simon targets PC jedi John.
Round 2 of the battle is going well for the sith and he see's jedi John is worthy of being captured for the ranks of vader's swelling Dark adepts.
So he activates this power barely succeeding though on the rolls to bring it up.

In round 3, he rolls his willpower (3d+2 after the MAPS for this, LSC, and his attack and parry are removed) while PC jedi John rolls 2d+2 (after his MAPS are removed). He wins by 7, so jedi john gains 2 TDSPs. Since he has a 7d control (and 3d+1 perception), he must gain 5 more TDSPs before he gains a DSP.

In round 4, the dark sider hits through his LS defense, and causes jedi john a wound, which penalizes his willpower roll by 2d, so he is effectively down to just +2. His willpower roll comes up an 11, so he wins by 9, giving jedi john 3 more TDSPs of taint. Currently Jedi John though is at +5 to hit and damage, so if he does score a blow, Sith Simon might be in for a world of hurt

Round 4 comes and jedi john loses yet again gaining a whapping 4 more TDSPs. Since this pushes him above the 7 cap, he turns in 7 TDSPs he has for a full on DSP, carrying over the remaining TDSP (in this case 2). He now is at +1d+2 to what his attack/damage is at.

In round 5, he wins the roll so gains no new pips, but still has failed to damage the sith, so the power stays up.

In round 6 he loses the roll gaining 3 more pips bringing his tally to 2P5T more and he gains another DSP, and is now at risk of turning.

Similar to the Sith power, force sink, 3 consecutive rounds of the target Winning the willpower contest, forces a drop of the power.

At any time in which the power is being used, if the activating sith makes a critical failure on his willpower roll, he creates a "Moment of doubt" under the redemption rules in the R&E rule book, which makes HIM at risk of being redeemed from the darkside (a critical failure is one where at least half the dice rolled PLUS the wild die come up a 1)
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Naaman]

Not bad. I would personally prefer to see less bookkeeping involved in resolving the effects. Not really sure how I'd handle it though: I don't tend to like powers that "force" a character to the dark side without some form of roleplay involved and without "player consent."

One more suggestion, I suppose, would be that the power might only have a reasonable chance of working if the user can detect some sort of tendency toward the dark side in the target to begin with. For example, Palpatine never once tried to talk Yoda, Obi Wan or anyone else over to the dark side. Much too risky. The target could perhaps get a bonus if he has never had any DSPs, and perhaps a penalty if he currently has DSPs. A character who has atoned for DSPs may receive the effects as written, while such a character might have invested heavily in Willpower to overcome his previous temptations... which might make him a poor candidate for the power overall.

Also, maybe allow the target an automatic success at resisting if he spends 1 (or more) CPs to immediately overcome the effects. And perhaps allow the target to spend a FP (no other benefit derived)to defeat the power and send some kind of backlash at the user, weakening the dark sider.

Anyway, just some ramblings....

[Esoomian]

[Naaman]

Overall I like the idea... Just would like to see it have more built in drama. That's where all of my suggestions are coming from.

[garhkal]