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Possible rules for "Follow through damage".
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Possible rules for "Follow through damage". Reply with quote

In many shows, whether cop dramas, thrillers, action flicks etc, we see shots (firearms, bows, thrown spears) that pierce one target but still have enough momentum to push out and pierce a 2nd target.

What ruling for a SW gam would you give if someone was wanting to try and do that with say either a slug thrower or other 'non explosive ranged weapon'?
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Quetzacotl
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would simply go with:
Roll half of soaking ((STR + Armor)/2) and add it to the normal soaking roll. If the damage roll is higher then that, the projectile pierces through the hit enemie and can hit another as well.
Problem would be the reduced power... I would simply go with half the damage roll for the next person in line, if there is one.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just treat it like shooting through cover. Only use the first subject's strength roll for the difficulty.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but would someone have to get a Kill result for the round to penetrate and go onto the next target, or just say an Incap/mortal wound?
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Kill shot probably shouldn't be demanded, as (in real life) bullets can do a "through-and-through" and hit a target behind the original one, without killing that first target.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The technical term is "over-penetration".
Raven Redstar wrote:
Just treat it like shooting through cover. Only use the first subject's strength roll for the difficulty.
This.

2E Rules, page 63 wrote:

Object is:------------------------------------>Reduce weapon damage by:
Object is stunned/not damaged ----------->Character is completely protected
Wounded/Light Damage -------------------> -4D
Incapacitated/Heavy Dam. ----------------> -2D
Mortally wounded/Severe Damage -------> -1D
Killed/Destroyed ---------------------------> Full Damage

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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i always did it by subtracting victim A's strength, plus any chest and back armor if any. the remainder is the new damage code, which is then modified by range and other situation/condition modifiers.

victims A's strength = xD
Armor = yD
weapon damage = 5D

for purposes of over penetration and how much damage it causes after victim A, simply do:

weapon damage - ((2*yD)+xD)=remaining damage

example:
victim strength =2D
armor =1D
weapon damage =5D

5D-((2*1D)+2D)=1D remaining damage. (armor plays a huge factor in over penetration.)

works well for me to use this method.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more proposition, similar to thedemonapostle's, but calculations are done on roll results instead of dice.

Example:
victim STR 2D, roll 8
armor 1D, roll 3
damage 5D, roll 21

Over-penetration damage is (armor, body, armor): 21-3-8-3=8. "Out" armor may be rolled second time or value from initial roll may be used.

This method works well with more complex die codes like 3D+2, 1D+1 etc., because pip-arithmetic doesn't need to be used. Moreover number of rolls is minimized (damage is rolled only once).

The only problem I see is when you are using bonuses to damage (like +1 for each 5 above difficulty or damage bonus for head shot), but personally I wouldn't care of it much, because first target most probably absorb such damage bonus completely.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you double the protection armor gives?
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because to go complately through a target the attack must pierce the armor twice, once for the front and once for the back? Unless the armor protects only one facing of the target.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of modern armor protects much better in one direction than the other.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean it could be easier to pierce a bullet-proof vest from the inside out than from the usual outside in? I didn't know that. Interesting.

So maybe not double the armor. But the back armor should still figure into calculating the necessary damage to pierce clean through the target.

That's of course still assuming that typical SW bodyarmor protects the wearer equally from all directions.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt double the armor, myself. But I like to keep it simple.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would bullets designed for armor piercing be better at 'following through"?
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Would bullets designed for armor piercing be better at 'following through"?


that would depend on whether or not the armor is hard. does it have a metallic, ceramic or hybrid plate? is it made of a reinforced fabric material? does it have both?

now youre starting to get into very overly complicated rules of armor piercing ammunition. most AP ammo actually has a less damaging characteristic to unarmored flesh than to armored targets. which is a real world issue.

another issue is that the real world SAPI (standard armor piercing insert) plates and their improved versions are only rated for a certain number of rounds. meaning after a certain number of rounds have hit the armor in a specific area, usually around 3-6" in diameter, the plate is no longer effective in that area. the current us army ceramic SAPI plates turn into a pile if ceramic bits when they reach their limit, which i then pretty much a bag of bits hovering around the lower abdomen region.

in regards to armor being easier to pierce through the backside. this is true of civilian armors. my experience within the military taught me that is is not the case. a dead person can be used a s a shield if they are wearing their armor. the rounded design of the SAPI plates was more for deflection purposes than for comfort of the wearer.

there is more than meets the eye for armor and over penetration and armor piercing ammunition.
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