Just for Fun: 2E Templates v. R&E Templates

[Barrataria]

After a zillion years, I found TWO copies of R&E in a used book store in Hawaii, of all places. I haven't decided yet which book I like better... I'm so used to the blue Vader cover and where everything is in that book it's hard to adjust. I think the artwork in 2E is better; the stuff they colorized from 2E looks like bad comics art to me. Anyway, an argument for another time.

I know some hate templates, but for those that don't I'm curious what you think of the additions/subtractions to the templates section in R&E. Leaving aside pure errata (like the error in the Young Jedi's attribute dice), let's look at what was done. [and yes, I know they're still in the old book and usable and ended up in the GM screen add-on, but anyway. Just for fun ] In general I won't focus on the additions/style changes made to the template text/backstory. I like that they added the "connections with characters" paragraph to help new players out, and making the templates a full page rather than half was a good idea, allowing for more text and room for players to write on photocopies.

"Alien Force Student": The squash version is changed to "Revwien Tyia Adept", both with the same stats. I think this one is understandable; I imagine plenty of players didn't want to play an animate butternut squash and some GMs probably didn't like the idea. I don't like the generic blue alien pic they used... but I understand the change. And yet, they leave the squash alien force student, with another name and a "connection with characters" paragraph added? Assuming space is limited (and I think you have to to explain some of what's to follow here), kind of a weird choice. I like Gonzo McSquash, Alien Force Student, but I could see swapping out the pictures. Grade: C (couldn't they find better than "blue alien with a headache"?)

"Bounty Hunter": Another mostly cosmetic change. The 2E book's bounty hunter was an Iotran, which I think was a race just made up based on the picture. The race and planet ended up with a cool backstory, but again I imagine some players wanted to play a human bounty hunter and some GMs didn't like a new alien race (in which case, why are you running an SW game ). Here, the flavor text is changed to make the bh character a Rebel, or at least have strong rebel sympathies. The Iotran was just a plain old merc bounty hunter, but of course the player/GM could easily have played him as a Rebel if appropriate. Again, mostly comes down to changing artwork... and we lose the cool Iotran in favor of a generic white dude wearing a bandolier of shotgun shells and what seem to be intergalactic sneakers. Grade: C-.

"Brash Pilot": Again, all cosmetic changes. The flavor text is changed to remove references to the New Republic, a common feature throughout the section (apparently WEG wanted the default setting to be pre-RotJ, a design choice I don't like but can understand if that's what gamers seemed to be doing in 1996). The flavor text is longer than that in the old template, but really about the same. This picture actually held up well to colorization. I'll grade this one B: unnecessary, but overall fine.

"Curious Explorer": Deleted. Now we have a problem. This is another template that presented a random new race, but this one (Shaull) was not really detailed as much in the EU as was the Iotran. This was a good template, presenting the "near-human" idea and a good character hook, a naive explorer from a backwards planet, complete with black powder pistol. The template had high KNO and PER stats, so was an interesting way to flesh out a party and provide those skill sets in a character not wise to all ways of the Empire and the Universe. There's no explorer template of any type in the R&E section at all. Grade: F.

"Cyborged Pirate": Like the bounty hunter, the pirate gets a new picture and a few tweaks. I can understand why GMs didn't like having a cyborged character available, and why players may not have wanted one (especially with the implications in the original films that cyborging is slightly evil). I like the new pirate picture better, and it's cool that the character gets a sword (handy to avoid blowing airlocks). But the new flavor text is all full of references to "walking the plank" and "arrr Matey", which IMO have utterly nothing to do with the SW universe. Worse, the new picture is male, so coupled with the other changes in the template section the only female characters are "arrogant noble" and "young senatorial". I liked that they had a bad-@$$ fighter chick available for female players that wanted to play that sort of game, and that's totally lost here. Grade: C-.

"Cynical Scout": Not a lot to say here. I like Ithorians a lot, think they are a good alien race to have represented in a campaign, and once again a scout/explorer type character is left on the cutting room floor. I guess they didn't want to encourage munchkining with a template with a 5D KNO attribute? If so, why not reduce it to 4D... and what about wookiees? Are players really clamoring to play characters with otherworldly language and planetary knowledge skills? Not acceptable. Grade: F.

"Ewok Warrior": Oddly, this guy just becomes "Ewok" in the new book. The stats are rejiggered, losing +1 from PER (again I assume to discourage munchkinism) and 1D from MEC (weird, since the two skills there are "beast riding" and "glider", which you'd assume ewoks would be good at) and adds 1D+1 (!) to STR. Looks like a warrior to me! Again the new flavor text assumes the character is a Rebel, which seems a little unnecessary, and the old flavor text even suggested that the character be played to manipulate humans which was an interesting idea. The picture colorized well. Whatever, did any players ever play ewoks in the first place? Grade: C.

"Failed Jedi": The greatest template in the history of templates. Do not meddle with perfection. The colorization is... well, the table is blue, and his hooch is... pee-colored? The new flavor text assumes he's got a Jedi apprentice, which IMO is a little constricting and suggests Jedi creep in campaigns, not good if they are trying to get away from the New Republic era as a default campaign. Leave the classics alone! Grade: C.

"Gambler": Another classic. Colorization is adequate, if a little too comic-bookish (maybe all of these were subject to the limitations of color printing at the time?). Flavor text is more detailed but generally as good as the original... except that again they assume the character is a Rebel, which is too bad for probably the most neutral template there is. Grade: B.

"Kid": I don't like this template anyway, especially since the kid still starts with the same number of attributes and skills as everyone else. The colorization of the picture is OK, but he is still shown with a slingshot and STILL doesn't have one on the equipment list. This template originally assumed the character was a Rebel, so I can't complain about that change. But I can complain that this bad template stays in and the scout and explorer get dumped. Unless you play him as Short Round from the second Indiana Jones movie and get him killed in a humorous way during the first session, I don't want this mess in my game. I certainly don't want it in a book called "Revised and Expanded". Grade: F.

"New Republic Bureaucrat": A quick review, because he doesn't exist. I can see that "bureaucrat" is not the most thrilling character concept, but it is actually an interesting and logical way to fill out a party, with lots of KNO and PER skills to share, and was always a cool idea in Traveller too. Plus, the original illustration really made the character look like a pompous, officious jerk. A lot to recommend as an option to get players and GMs thinking, but no place for bureaucrats in the rebellion with kids and brash pilots. I guess he's replaced with "Young Senatorial", so maybe that's not the worst trade-off ever. But still, any interstellar galaxy worth its salt is going to have a ton of bureaucrats and not as many senators, IMO. Grade: D.

"Protocol Droid": Almost no change other than colorizing the picture, which was done pretty well. Don't mess with the classics- gotta have a droid option, protocol droid is perfect for that and for games, so let's move on. Grade: A.

"Smuggler": Another classic, not to be trifled with. I never liked the original illo much, and colorizing it really didn't help at all. The flavor text is more or less the same, but again assumes Rebel sympathies, unnecessary and not productive for the thinking of new GMs and players. Grade: B-.

"Sullustan Trader": Another quick and easy one: he's gone. It seems they really wanted to add human character templates, which is fine, and reduce munchinery, and this one's high MEC attribute of course was a prime candidate for that. As are Sullustans anyway with their navigational skills... but it's still one of the default races detailed in the book as suitable for PCs, so that doesn't make much sense either. I always thought they should have one template in the rulebook for each of the races they suggested... but this doesn't get closer. Deletion of this character was a bad choice. They could have gone "Sullustan Explorer" and killed two birds with one stone. Grade: F.

Wookiee First Mate: Like the Smuggler, a classic gets a makeover, and here probably well-done. The art is all-new, so looks good in color, but the original B&W version was nice too. Flavor text again is slanted to make the character a Rebel, but given the race's backstory I can't complain much. I like dropping the "first mate" from the title, too restrictive in the first place, and I always thought Chewbacca was a pretty unique character for having piloting skills at all. Just the kind of upgrading they should be doing in a revised edition. Grade:A.

Young Jedi: As noted, a huge improvement because they fixed the attribute dice in the template. Unfortunately, they colorized one of the worst illos from the 2E book rather than dumping it. I suppose at the least the character is pretty androgynous so can be used for a male or female young Jedi. Not much change in the flavor text. Not bad, still belongs, but should have upgraded the picture. Grade: B-.

Now, on to the new competitors:

Arrogant Noble: A great addition. The Empire should be crawling with these, and surely the New Republic too, trying to get their old titles back. Nice new artwork (although I really like the Arrogant Imperial Noble and his handlebar mustache in Heroes and Rogues). The flavor text assumes a reluctant participant in the Rebellion, which gives a player and GM a lot to work with. I don't like the quote much, but a minor quibble compared to the rant about Palpatine as an upstart and unfit to be the character's superior. I want my Failed Jedi character to go on a date with the Arrogant Noble! Talk about a love connection. Grade: A.

Minor Jedi: Here's where this review gets hard. We already have a "Young Jedi", with 3D of Force abilities. This guy has but 1D, which makes him a more useful beginning character overall, and a decent backstory. I guess this is a sop to people who wanted to play a character like the Failed Jedi but didn't like his backstory. Such people should be shunned. The artwork is ok, but I still don't get why (assuming space is a limitation) this is needed in addition to Young Jedi. And I can read between the lines and see why people complained about too many Jedi characters in SWd6 games. Grade: D-.

Mon Calamari: A needed addition, with good artwork. Like the wookiee assumes a Rebel character, but again seems appropriate. I like that it doesn't assume he's a particular thing (engineer, medic, etc.). The "Personality" blurb is great, explaining the typical Mon Cal and also that individuals vary. Well done. Grade: A, but I still want my Sullustan and Ithorian back.

Outlaw: Another sorely-needed addition. A good generic illegal character, good in a scrap, good and obvious backstory that doesn't assume the character is a Rebel (are you telling me there's no Jayne Cobbs in the Rebellion? This is why I root for the Empire). Artwork... hmm. I hate to complain, but he's got white hair and a grey eyebrow. And an eyepatch. Isn't cybernetics advanced? The bounty hunter got a cybernetic eye and it wasn't even included on his template. Doesn't he know where Dr. Evazan (or his nearsighted Rodian apprentice) is? Can't complain too much, we needed this character type badly. Grade: A-.

Quixotic Jedi: I don't hate this idea, but I bet some annoying players really tested the patience of their GMs and companions with this (they're probably the same people that always wanted to play bards in 3E D&D). Another 1D Jedi, so more useful skills as a beginning character but still lending to Jedi bloat in a campaign. And encroaches on the Failed Jedi. I still would rather have one scout character option than this nichiest of niche characters. Decent artwork although poor face detailing. Grade: D+.

Rookie New Republic Pilot: What is this i don't even. Most characters have any New Republic reference scrubbed from their backstories. There's already a "brash pilot" with exactly the same stats. New artwork, but this picture shows a dude with his helmet on and blast shield down, so seems really pointless (except to try to contrast with the Brash Pilot I guess). Some of the flavor text from the old Brash Pilot template appears here. Is he not brash because the New Republic has regulated trash talk? A total waste of space. Grade: F-, academic probation for next year.

Revwien Tyia Adept: See above. I think this only made sense as an Alien Force Student; now it's just useless surplusage. Grade: D-.

Young Senatorial: As noted, probably a replacement for the bureaucrat. A good character type, with decent art, but again assumes a Rebel character. A good addition, maybe even at the expense of the bureaucrat, but (as noted for the wookiee) seems to assume that one of the iconic characters in the films was a lot more common than she seemed to be. Grade: B.

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On the whole, a mixed bag I guess. Some nice changes (Wookiee, more human templates), good additions (Outlaw, Arrogant Noble, Mon Cal), some bad choices (too many Jedi, not enough females with blasters/swords, identical starfighter pilot templates, no scouts), and real clankers and missed opportunites (kid, ewok, forcesquash).

Sorry for the diversion, but I've been thinking about this as I read through R&E and keep going back to it. Templates are one of my favorite things about SW, and have been very important in adventure inspiration/campaign design, so I guess I was hoping for more than R&E delivered on that score. I think on the whole I like the template selection in the 2E book better.
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"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing"- George Lucas

[garhkal]

Nice rundown. I do agree that something should have been done with the "Kid template" in the way of less attribute/skill dice, but i think they were trying to gear the game for a younger generation, so didn't want to seem as to be leaving the kid being lackluster compared to everyone else. Plus they would have then had to come up with aging rules (such as what bonuses/penalties acru as one crosses from say young adult to mature, or from old to venerable), as well as age brackets for each and every species out there.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[cheshire]

Welcome back after your hiatus!

I don't think there's any need to say you're sorry for the distraction. In a sense, all of us are here for one sort of distraction or another.

But I think this is an interesting review of some of the most overlooked material. I've given casual glances to them, and sometimes when I'm coming up with characters I've given them some reference, but your passion for the material is clear. Thanks for sharing the thoughts.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Barrataria]

[Barrataria]

[CRMcNeill]

I've always thought that it would be useful to invert the D&D character classes for SWD6 character templates; specifically, to allow players to pick what character they want to play, then apply a specific set of modifiers for a given alien race to adjust the template appropriately.

For example, say that a particular species tended to be stronger than humans but not quite as dexterous, so rather than giving attribute dice parameters (as is done in the WEG species descriptions), you would have a chart like this:

Dex: -1
Know: 0
Mech: 0
Per: 0
Str: +1
Tech: 0

Templates would then be non-specific as to species, and the character would then pick which species he wished to play and apply the appropriate modifiers. A human bounty hunter, for instance, would play with the stats as given in the WEG template, while a bounty hunter of the aforementioned alien species would subtract a pip from his Dex and add a pip to his Str.

IMO, the information to convert WEG alien species stats into something like this if an appropriate conversion method can be found.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Raven Redstar]

That's not a bad suggestion mcneill, but then what is the advantage to playing a human? In the WoTC games humans got a free feat, which a human in WEG couldn't care less about.

Maybe give the human a free floating pip and penalty to apply, but what you end up with then is what a player can do from the start which is just shifting attribute pips around.
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RR
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[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

[cheshire]

[Darth_Hilarious]

Dont forget that Humans had a racial advantage after the clone wars thanks to palpatine. After all, 99% of the CIS was composed of Non Human species and Palpatine used that to turn the empire Xenophobic. "Dont trust the non humans look what they just did to us", the only two Human commanders in the entire separatist army in the films were Palpatine and Dooku.

While there were many humans as well with the separatist cause, the primary make up were non human and droids.

[garhkal]

Well said. Its not like in ADND where many of the non human races get so many benefits, that rarely do players take human pcs these days cause there is no "mechanical benefit" to doing so (especially in games where many of the things like level limits, class restrictions; things put into the game to balance those bonuses out, get removed).
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Raven Redstar]

The point that I was trying to get at is that templates are not set in stone. You can shift pips around however you want as long as you don't go over species maximums or under species minimums.

I'll allow a player to change species, even some skills, and I'll let them change attributes within reason when they create their character.

On the topic of the templates, I'm fairly certain that several of the templates that were removed from the main book ended up in other source books. There are 3 bounty hunter templates, one of which is an Iotran in the bounty hunter galaxy guide, 4 scout types in the scouts galaxy guide, and several of the missing roles you described ended up in the revised GM screen templates.

I think that in my experience as a player and as a GM, I use the templates for inspiration, but make them my own. Each template gives a good example of appropriate gear and the approximate stat spread for a given profession. But, not every person in that occupation is going to be exactly the same. This is where I encourage people to fiddle a little with the templates to make them their own.
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RR
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[DougRed4]

[Barrataria]