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Hellcat
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 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Endwyn wrote: | Cool, then we have different interpritations of the rule.
Skaff Toxian:
You need to decide how you read this rule form the book:
| Quote: | | "Total up the dice of the stock droid, including attributes, skills, weapons, armor, and special attachments that add extra skill dice." |
If you read it as any dice that adds to a skill + skill dice + attribute dice + armor (adds to soak) - then the astromech has 19D invested and would get 6D for extra skills as a PC.
If you read it as the total of all dice, the astromech is already over the 25D limit. |
Heck, just the attributes and skills alone are over 25D.
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Hellcat wrote: | | Heck, just the attributes and skills alone are over 25D. |
Huh?
DEX: 1D - No skills over 1D.
KNO: 1D - No skills over 1D.
MEC: 2D - Astrogation 5D (3D of skill added to 2D), Starfighter Pioleting 3D (1D of skill added to 2D), and Space transports 3D (1D of skill added to 2D).
PER: 1D - No skills over 1D.
STR: 1D - Lifting @ 2D from griping arm (Counts as 1D of skill over 1D)*
TEC: 2D - Comp Prg/Rpr - 4D (2D of skill added to 2D), Starfighter Rpr 5D (3D of skill added to 2D)
* Using the example, you can see the lifting from the attachment is only charged for the level over the attribute, or the skill dice that would have been used to get that skill level.
So, by my math - 8D of attributes and 10D of skill + 1D of attachment skill; or 19D total. The only way I see you would get the skills and attributes over 25D would be if you added the totals of the skills (not the skill dice used to buy the level) and the attribute dice. In which case you would get 20D skills and 8D attributes.....but you don't even build a normal character that way.
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Hellcat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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You're supposed to add the skills as full as I read it. 11D in Mechanical skills and 9D in Technical skills is 20D
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Not according to the example on pg 236. The example says "Eric" is going to play a 6G2 DeepSpace Explorer droid. It says the droid starts with 6D attributes, 3D in skill dice, and 7D in attachments (3D for lifting (the lift arm says lifting 4D, but since STR is 1D - you pay the difference), 2D for the bonus to search (long-range), and 2D for the bonus to search (movement sensors))
OK, just pull the skill part - 3D. That droid only has one skill, search @ 4D. You pay the difference between the skill and the attribute. All of that droid's attributes are 1D.
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Hellcat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I saw the example, but there is a problem in that there is nothing beyond the example to say that you subtract the attribute dice from the total skill dice when creating a droid character.
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand us being unclear over the specifics of whether or not we think the rule includes the damage dice in creation; but I don't see why you feel the example doesn't clarify how you count the skill dice. Is there something I am missing? To me it's clear since the example shows the totals and when you look at the droid you can see the math they did for the skill. Especially since there is only one skill.
No other ("flesh") PC is made the way you're talking about. You don't assign attribute dice and then spend your 7 skill dice buying skills up to the attribute before you can exceed it. They're both PC's; basic rules inherrent to making a character should still apply unless replaced or stated as not-applicable in the special creation rules.
Just as an example, if you use my interpritation your character in the PBP here, it would have 23D + whatever you have in dodge. By your method of counting, that same droid would have 48D + dodge. 48D is far above what a playable droid should have. I'm sure you can tell that your character is not even close to "far above starting PC level". That droid would be twice as advanced as a droid should be for PC level using your count, but if you halfed that character you wouldn't have much of a character at start (die codes wise). Just as a practical example of what restrictions occur when using your interpritation.
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Hellcat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to take the examples and look through them then back through the rules they explain several times over to see if there's anything in them that I may be missing. What I don't see here is anything saying you subtract the attribute from the total of each skill within the rules themselves.
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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It's not in the rules, you have to look at the example. It's the only place you see it used on droids. Since it is a character, it would follow character creation rules, and characters only pay for the skill level above their attribute.
I definatly agree that it's not stated specificly in the droid creation rules, but it is covered by character creation in general.
Do you see how counting your way creates a droid that is half as powerful as a PC or one that uses twice the dice and is on the PC"s level?
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And Leia is your sister!
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And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
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Hellcat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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What I see is that we're not going to agree on this.
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:26 am Post subject: |
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That's fine, then we disagree.
Skaff Toxian:
Like I said previously, you'll have to decide which way you read the rule. I recomend you only count the attribute dice, and anything that is a direct add to a skill. (So, free extra skill dice to divide among an attribute is not counted, a listed skill or a direct add (like +2D to search) counts.) Add in armor dice and if it's less than 25D you get the differnce as skill dice to round out your character. Otherwise your going to have a hard time making a character that is on the same level as the PC's.
If all this is too complex you could use the 2nd edition non-revised rules. Just take a droid and add 1D to each attribute, then divide 10D among all the droid's skills. (You only have die ratings in skills you buy, so there are no free skills above the attribute.) Doing that means the R2 unit would have better attributes and could have the same skills in the book, with 5D left to buy skills above or beyond the basic R2. That rule simplification is easier, but not as fair since droid attribute ranges varry. (Some with as little as 6D with some being in the 18D range already.)
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Skaff Toxian
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I dont think I would add the damage from the weapons etc. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Another book that might help, is Cyndarbars Fantastic Tech, Droids.
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good point garhkal.
I will grab my copy and see if it has anything to say that would clarify this further.
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out. |
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Endwyn
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Great call Garhkal.
Here is the droid used in the example:
| Fantastic Tech: Droids, Pg 82 wrote: | Rim Securities K4 Security Droid
Dex: 3D
Blaster 7D, Dodge 8D, Running 4D.
Kno: 1D
Mec: 1D
Per: 1D
Str: 1D
Tec: 1D
Equipment:
*Two auto-balance legs
*Two arms
*Body Armor (+2D to resist damage)
*Internal blaster rifle (5D, 5-30/100/200)
Move: 11
Size: 1.6 Meters tall
Cost: 7,500 |
The example reads:
| Fantastic Tech: Droids, Pg 39-40 wrote: | (excert about some droids not being suited for PC's (too big, ect)) The first thing you should do if you chose to play an existing droid type is to select a "stock" droid you like. (excerpt about all droids in this book being stock.) Count up the dice the new droid has allocated to attributes, skills, and attachments. Make sure to ignore any dice the droid recieves from special abilities or story factors, as these usually only come into play at character creation, and are not counted in the charcters standard 25D. For instance, the droid might have a special ability granting it any one Mechanical skill at 3D. Extra dice given in this manner do not count towards the droid's 25D.
If the droid has exactly 25D in his attributes, skills, and attachments, it is ready to be run as a player character; just copy down the droid on a piece of paper and (as far as game rules are concerned) that character is ready to go.
If the droid model you wish to play has less than 25D total, you can add the difference with "Build Dice." Figure out what your "build dice" are byt subtracting the total dice from the droid you want to play from 25. The value you come up with is your build dice, which can be allocated to skills, and attachments, not attribures.
Example: Dave wants to play a Rim Securities K4-series security droid. The droid has a total of 20D in attributes, skill, and attachments. In this case the Dave's droid has 5D of "build dice." (25D minus the 20D listed in the template = 5D still available for skills and attachments.) Dave can still add these 5D of "build dice" to the skills and attachments to his character. Remember, Dave can't spend these "build dice" on improving attributes. |
So WEG adds up the K4, which has Attributes, skills, armor, and a weapon and gets 20D used for the K4. The K4 has 8D of attributes (no body disagrees on this part), so we have 12D left, everyone agree? There was a disagreement on how to add skills - Method 1 gets 10D of skills (my count), Method 2 gets 19D in skills (Hellcat's count). There is not even close to 19D left, so Method 1 is used to count skills. This totals 18D and leaves 2D remaining unaccounted for. The only two pieces of equipment left that are questionable if they count are weapons and armor. This droid has both, the weapon does 5D damage, and if counted would bring the droid down into the negatives. So we don't count it. The armor is 2D...which just happens to be exactly the remaining amount.
So, you add the attribute dice, the skill level above the attribute (calculate the # of skill dice that would have been used to get those skill levels), add the bonus gathered off equipment (+XD to search, ect), and armor value. Don't count weapon damage or equipment that adds no bonuses to skills. Also don't count indirect bonuses, like "this droid may distribute 3D of skill dice between Mec or Tec skills." or "this droid gets one Mec skill at 3D".
Garhkal was very right, Fantastic Tech Droids did clear it all up. (Thanks.)
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.
Last edited by Endwyn on Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Takes a bow!! 
Actually, i had to go over those rules with someone at Fire and Ice...
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