Maneuver Threshold

[atgxtg]

Okay,, a lot of times while playing ship/vehicle combat, somebody files straight and we either get bogged down riolling 8D to see if somebody can make a 10, or we just hand wave that the guy did it and get on with the game. Also, when maneuvering using a battleboard of some type, somebody does something, blows the roll, and the GM has to kinda backtrack things to see what really happened [spin, collision, etc.\.

I am thinkig of a way to simplify the combat and drop some of the excessive rolling.

What I got is an idea for a Maneuver Threshold. This is equal to the characters pips plus maneuverability pips. For example, a TIE pilot with 6D skill [18 pips]( in a TIE with 2D maneuverability ]6 pips( would have a threshold of 21. Note that MAPS will reduce the threshold ]3 points per die].

When a character maneuvers his ship during a round, he adds up the difficulty of the maneuvers he does as he does them. [/i\. As long as the total remains below the threshold the pilot doesn't have to roll. Once the character total difficlty exceeds the threshold the character has to roll, and that'is the point where the ship could go out of control.


Maneuvers

Turn 5 per turn [can stack multiple turns to make a tighter turn\
Slide"5 [move diagonally, uses up a point of SPACE speed]
Half Loop' 10 [ship stays in same space but turns up to 180 degrees, uses up all SPACE speed for the round, You can save some movment by making a tighter loop but it increases the difficulty by 5 per point of SPACE speed saved].
Full Loop 20 [ship stays in the same sapce on the map but uses up all its movmenent. Can make tigghter loops as per half loop to save some movement].
Speed' Cautious -5, Normal 0, High Speed 5, All Out 10 *becuase it is harder to maneuver at higher speeds(.



How does this look for a start?

[CRMcNeill]

You could also use the optional rule from D6 Space. Give the dice a static value of 3.5 per D (rounded up), add the pips, then just roll the Wild Die. That way, instead of 8D, you convert 7D to a static value of 25, then roll 1D for the Wild result.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

I actually like the proposal.. but you are going to have to come up with 'base difficulties for each terrain + what ever maneuvers are being done.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Naaman]

atgxtg, I think this is brilliant. Playtest it and let us know how it goes!

[Dromdarr_Alark]

I think this is a great idea.

I agree with crmcneill about including the wild die. I think it's still important to include the possibility of a mishap or a spectacular success.
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"I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll."

[Naaman]

I'm not sure how I feel about the wild die thing for rolls that have a greater than 99% chance of success ( rolling at least 10 on 9+ dice, etc). The point is to declutter game play by reducing the number of rolls...

[DougRed4]

My only input was going to be to do something to include the Wild Die, but I do get the desire not to include it for mundane rolls or situations that one should routinely make. Perhaps come up with some situations where the wild die would be rolled? (and by that I mean more than your system where dice rolls would happen, as they appear that they will be rare for a good pilot). It does add a lot of interesting results (besides the chance of failure, it's good to have a chance for a spectacular success where one does far better than normal, too!)
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[jmanski]

Yeah, I don't like the idea of completely removing the wild die, but I understand why you would want to use it less. Sometimes a failure because of a wild die can make for interesting results.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[Quetzacotl]

Well, you could simply add:
If the you use more then half your points (or pips or whatever), you have to roll a Wild Die as well.

So really mundane task would be an auto success, but not so mundane tasks that are still easy for the pilot can have a mishap or something like that.

[Dromdarr_Alark]

A 1 on the wild die doesn't always mean failure, also.

It could mean something else happens along with the success.
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"I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll."

[atgxtg]

GuessI better explain a bit moreon this....

First off it it does not completely/i] eliminate the wild die. It only does so if the pilot plays it safe and keeps the maneuvering below his threshold.

Secondly, I set the threshold to 3 pops per D rather than 3.5, so that a character can only safely do things that are a bit below his average. The idea here is to eliminate some unecessariy rolls, like when a guy with 8D is doing an Easy *10( maneuver. Yeah, the player [i]could roll horrible and spin out, but he probably will make the roll, and the if we really ran al those mishaps/penalty dice, most average people wouldn't make it to work in the Star Wars Universe!

For example, if a X-Wing [3D Manverability] pilot with 5D skill was just piloting the ship and not doing anything else, he would have a threshold of 24 [8Dx3]. Now that would about allow a full loop, or a 360 turn while moving at normal speed, but if the pilot tries to dodge, shoot the laser cannots, scan something with the sensors or whatever MAPs will quickly cause the plot to either limit his maneuvering or attempt a piloting skill roll.
So PCs won&t have to roll to parallel park, unless they are having a running blaster fight at the same time.





As far as playtesting goes, well, it already has been playtested, partially. At least the bit with adding up the difficulties. I did up a reference sheet for maneuvering a year ago, back when I was trying out the my reduced ranges idea [1/4 range so SPACE 8 max speed is 8 rather than 40 to keep the counters on a map, but ranges are 1/4 too]. Now I didn't say much about this in the last year, as I was in Florida for ayear and just got back a few weeks ago. When I did, I discovered that me local gaming group had been using the maneuvering reference sheet for the last year, and it seems to work out. Basically what I did was adapt and simpifly some stuff from Star Warriors to the RPG. I used fixed maneuver difficulties for each vehicle *rather than the custom modfiers in Star Warriors( and let ships keep thier Maneuverability dice.

I got the PDF sheet if somebody wants to give it a look. It explains the maneuvers a bit better, has some images of an X-Wing doing the maneuvers, and a few other tidbits that I haven7t mentiontedd, such as snap shots ]reaction attacks, for when a ship flies into and out of your fire arc in the same turn].

Now that I see the thing actually working I want to polish it off. I have notes somewhare for stacking the maneuvers to mimic the maneuvers from the rebel sorucebook, and possibly adding the maneuver modfier for move rate to dodge rolls.

[Naaman]

I've honestly been trying to come up with some advanced piloting skills for years, and this maneuver threshold the way you've presented it, may be just the mechanic that I need to make the idea work.

I think it looks great the way it is, but not having play tested it, I can only speculate.

[garhkal]

[DougRed4]

Yeah, that's an important point about the "1" on the Wild Die not necessarily meaning a disastrous failure. Sometimes I just have the player add things up normally, other times I let them succeed with a complication or something interesing happening. It depends on where we're at in the story (plus how pivotal the scene is, how often they've rolled poorly, and other factors).
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[jmanski]

I guess the point I'm making about not removing the wild die from rolls where the PC is playing it safe is that every once in a while you hit something while parking your car. It might do no damage in real terms, but something DID happen, and it could have an effect later.

Just in my nitpicky nature, I guess....
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?