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PsiberDragon
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: Techno Mages |
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So, I just finished my semi-annual watching of Babylon 5 and I'm getting ready to get back into gaming (probably d20, sadly, as my gaming crew doesn't care for d6  ) and I'm reading the Babylon 5 Technomage trilogy.
In an effort to work on a better system of spells, I found a copy of the B5 Technomage handbook. As I was looking through it, I thought that this might be an interesting alternative to Force Users. All (ok, well, maybe most) of the skill, none of those pesky Imperials hunting you using the Force.
For those who haven't heard of Technomages, they use technology to simulate magic. Telekinesis, shields, obfuscation, etc... all using holograms and the like, instead of the Force.
So... my question is: What does everyone think of this/these/those?
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I'm also in the process of watching B5. I just started 3rd season.
As a GM, I'm also sorely tempted to bring B5 things into my game. I have the added fortune of having players who have not seen B5, so I could do it without undermining their SW experience.
But, still I'm hesitant to do so. I'm going to be bringing in a few things, for sure, but I don't want to make Star Wars be something other than Star Wars, if that makes sense.
Fortunately, there's really a lot that can be done with Star Wars, and techno-mages are not so integral to B5 for it to be (in my stuffy opinion) damaging import.
The next question is: what do you want to do with them? What role are they going to play in the story? |
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PsiberDragon
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | Hey, I'm also in the process of watching B5. I just started 3rd season.
As a GM, I'm also sorely tempted to bring B5 things into my game. I have the added fortune of having players who have not seen B5, so I could do it without undermining their SW experience.
But, still I'm hesitant to do so. I'm going to be bringing in a few things, for sure, but I don't want to make Star Wars be something other than Star Wars, if that makes sense.
Fortunately, there's really a lot that can be done with Star Wars, and techno-mages are not so integral to B5 for it to be (in my stuffy opinion) damaging import.
The next question is: what do you want to do with them? What role are they going to play in the story? |
I'm not actually doing anything with them, per se. I just thought they'd be interesting in Star Wars as a "non force" tradition. Their "spells" are kind of like the Force, and they have a set code similar to Jedi, but they aren't Force trackable... 
Ultimately, if there's interest beyond just me, I'll see if I can't adapt them to SW...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Ultimately, my read of the Techno Mage sourcebook just ended up looking like using ultra advanced technology to induce Force Sensitivity. I ended up going with something along the lines of Peter Hamilton's Mindstar trilogy, in which bio-ware glands are implanted in human subjects to induce psychic powers. Something in this vein plays into the concept of the Empire experimenting on humans and other species to produce more capable soldiers. Mindstar-augmented stormtroopers and other elite and loyal Imperial agents may not have access to the same degree of skill and power development as a full-fledged Jedi, but they do provide more capable, "level-boss" type opponents.
The problem with Techno-Mages in the SWU setting is that the creation of Techno-Mages ties in with the B5 ancient races being actively involved in shaping the future of the younger races, as well as still being present in the story line (to a greater or lesser degree). All the ancient races of the SWU (such as the Celestials or the Rakata) seemed more interested in keeping the younger races down, or in utilizing them as slaves.
The idea of a Techno Mage has merit, but you would need to have a very clear and well-thought out backstory as to how and why they exist in the SWU.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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PsiberDragon
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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My thought as for why they exist is a force blind race's answer to Jedi. The race (like the modern Rakata: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakata under "Society"; or maybe the Yuuzhan Vong or T'surr) use advance technology to simulate Force powers, thus enabling them to combat Jedi or Sith.
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Leon The Lion
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I love me some Babylon 5. My SW, being more of a kitchen sink setting build on a heavy foundation of Star Wars, already includes some B5 stuff (currently just the Starfury fighters, really, but the station itself will make an appearance eventually).
That said, bearing in mind I only know the original series, the Techno Mages are one of my least favourite things in B5. Not that I actively dislike them, but they always struck me as very 'meh'. Kinda bland and boring, really. In my perception, they never really fit the setting very well. They literally came out of nowhere one episode, and went away into nowhere in another. The best, and only memorable, thing about them was the final parting words Elric bestowed on Lando.
So I was never the least tempted to adapt them into my SW, and anyone else would have to do hell of a lot better than the original show to make me interested.
But if you like them, hell, go for it!
I could see them as a very advanved culture's answer to the Force, yes. Bearing in mind, this would have to be some extremely advanced tech to be able to take on a real Force Sensitive, if we're talking direct confrontation at least. Simply simulating Force powers would not be enough. They'd have to truly copy them with tech. Because if you're just using holograms and stuff to make illusions, a Jedi will see through it in an instant (Life Sense, Sense Force, etc.).
Could be fun, though. Super-miniaturized repulsors and tractor beams build into gauntlets or cyberlimbs for telekinesis. Neural-implant boosted reflexes and implanted battle computers with body-language analysis software to keep up with Lightsaber Combat. Mind control lasers! 
crmcneill's idea of directly granting real Force ability through neuro-surgery and implantation is quite interesting too. But it kind of demands that you decide and take a stance on the exact interaction between Force and biology, which is a sensitive topic to some.
The closest I came to this in my game, is one NPC, a galactic-level super-genius, making herself immune to the Jedi Mind Trick. As she explained to the party's Jedi, it's really rather simple. You just need to know which exact part of your own brain to cut out...
Of course, depending on what exactly you want, the Techno Mages need not be ment to directly confront Force Sensitives, nor be this powerful. Maybe they're just a sect on some distant, primitive Rim planet, in possession of, mostly holographic, technology beyond the level of the local tech base, that they use to make themselves appear to have real powers to caw the masses into obidience?
Ah, hell, there you go all, giving me ideas again... 
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PsiberDragon
Commander
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | I love me some Babylon 5. My SW, being more of a kitchen sink setting build on a heavy foundation of Star Wars, already includes some B5 stuff (currently just the Starfury fighters, really, but the station itself will make an appearance eventually).
That said, bearing in mind I only know the original series, the Techno Mages are one of my least favourite things in B5. Not that I actively dislike them, but they always struck me as very 'meh'. Kinda bland and boring, really. In my perception, they never really fit the setting very well. They literally came out of nowhere one episode, and went away into nowhere in another. The best, and only memorable, thing about them was the final parting words Elric bestowed on Lando. |
Check out Crusade (Short lived TV series that is supposed to deal with the Drahk Plague) and the Techno-Mage Trilogy (books) to get a better view of them
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | crmcneill's idea of directly granting real Force ability through neuro-surgery and implantation is quite interesting too. But it kind of demands that you decide and take a stance on the exact interaction between Force and biology, which is a sensitive topic to some. |
True. The midichlorians concept is certainly one of my least favorite parts of the prequels. Qui-gon's explanation to Anakin seems like he is talking down to Anakin, explaining a complex biological concept in the most simplistic forms. However, I like the idea of Force Sensitives having some sort of chemical or genetic marker in their system. In the case of the Mindstar trilogy, the Mindstar project uses an implanted gland to introduce tailored hormones into a person's blood stream that stimulate and enhance latent psychic abilities. For the purposes of my own SWU, these tailored neuro-hornmones are little more than artificial midichlorians (although I avoid the term midichlorian as much as possible). The abilities that result from such enhancement are limited relative to what naturally occurring Force Sensitives can achieve, and there is the potential for mental instability or insanity as a side effect (as a person who is not naturally Force Sensitive isn't really wired for such awareness).
It's fun to combine artificially enhanced Force Sensitives with other anti-Jedi technology, like Aegis Hoods from WH40K that protect the wearer from mental attacks, or Lensors from the Chronicles of Riddick film. Its a great surprise for a mid-level Jedi character to be suddenly faced with an elite stormtrooper jedi hunter team that can track him, is resistant to mind tricks, and is augmented enough to engage him in close combat.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | It's fun to combine artificially enhanced Force Sensitives with other anti-Jedi technology, like Aegis Hoods from WH40K that protect the wearer from mental attacks, or Lensors from the Chronicles of Riddick film. Its a great surprise for a mid-level Jedi character to be suddenly faced with an elite stormtrooper jedi hunter team that can track him, is resistant to mind tricks, and is augmented enough to engage him in close combat. |
I'm really digging that last idea, and may have to swipe that (down the road) for my game! 8)
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | It's fun to combine artificially enhanced Force Sensitives with other anti-Jedi technology, like Aegis Hoods from WH40K that protect the wearer from mental attacks, or Lensors from the Chronicles of Riddick film. Its a great surprise for a mid-level Jedi character to be suddenly faced with an elite stormtrooper jedi hunter team that can track him, is resistant to mind tricks, and is augmented enough to engage him in close combat. |
I'm really digging that last idea, and may have to swipe that (down the road) for my game! 8) |
Which one?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| PsiberDragon wrote: | | My thought as for why they exist is a force blind race's answer to Jedi. The race (like the modern Rakata: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakata under "Society"; or maybe the Yuuzhan Vong or T'surr) use advance technology to simulate Force powers, thus enabling them to combat Jedi or Sith. |
The problem there is that, if you are keeping true to the Techno Mage theme, this will be very highly advanced technology, and there isn't a lot of that floating around in the SWU, apart from what is already part of the canon. Even if you decided to make them a self perpetuating remnant of long lost technology, essentially all you have are Force users with a different backstory.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | DougRed4 wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | It's fun to combine artificially enhanced Force Sensitives with other anti-Jedi technology, like Aegis Hoods from WH40K that protect the wearer from mental attacks, or Lensors from the Chronicles of Riddick film. Its a great surprise for a mid-level Jedi character to be suddenly faced with an elite stormtrooper jedi hunter team that can track him, is resistant to mind tricks, and is augmented enough to engage him in close combat. |
I'm really digging that last idea, and may have to swipe that (down the road) for my game! 8) |
Which one? |
That last part of your post right before mine, the part where you wrote:
It's fun to combine artificially enhanced Force Sensitives with other anti-Jedi technology, like Aegis Hoods from WH40K that protect the wearer from mental attacks, or Lensors from the Chronicles of Riddick film. Its a great surprise for a mid-level Jedi character to be suddenly faced with an elite stormtrooper jedi hunter team that can track him, is resistant to mind tricks, and is augmented enough to engage him in close combat.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ah. I was thinking you were referring to one part of it in particular, rather than the whole thing.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I just think it's brilliant, and could really throw a Jedi for a loop. I can imagine his surprise, when he tries to use the Force to figure out why someone is so proficient at countering what he does. 
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | I just think it's brilliant, and could really throw a Jedi for a loop. I can imagine his surprise, when he tries to use the Force to figure out why someone is so proficient at countering what he does. |
Thanks. It's part of a larger ongoing project of mine to redefine Jedi in the games, giving their powers a broader scope, while simultaneously limiting them ethically and practically.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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