| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Red 331
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 215
Location: Nebraska
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: To Wild Die or not to Wild Die |
 |
|
I know from the 2nd R&E rulebook that "The wild die rule counts for all die rolls in the game, including skill and attribute checks, weapon damage, and rolling Perception for initiative" (Page 74), but am still a little confused at times.
Is there EVER an exception to this rule?
And what are all the situations where you do NOT reroll a 6 on the wild die, or when you do NOT either use a complication or deduct the 1 rolled by the wild die and the highest remaining die as a result of the rolling of a 1 on the wild die?
For instance, in this video posted by someone going by the nickname "Webhead", he seems to indicate that you do NOT use a complication, or reduce the die rolls, when you roll a 1 on the wild die while resisting damage:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mLIkWZxPTg
Go to about 11:39 in the video.
I'm "dieing" to hear what people think!
Sorry - have a case of the Mondays.
PS - anyone know if Webhead is a member of the forum? I think there are a few minor errors in the video on game mechanics, but I still thought it was helpful. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I think I always use the wild die, as an exploding/limiting die... but there are several instances where I don't apply complications. Complications make sense in a lot of cases, but not everywhere. Resisting damage, for example, I don't apply complications (though a 1 would still take it and the highest die out of the total); a complication doesn't really make a lot of sense there outside of the basic nature of taking damage.
I'm coming up a little blank on other situations where I haven't had complications apply, but I know they've happened 
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, to begin with, there are 3 possibilities when rolling a 1 on the wild die, not 2.
The third one is "just add the 1 normally". So the first roll of 1, 2 and 3 (1 being the wild die) would simply be a 6 without any complication.
Personally, I have only played a SW D6 session once and that was a few days ago (me being the GM), so I can't really speak from experience, but most times I will probably go with this third choice, unless I can come up with something interesting for a complication on the spot.
Substracting the 1 and the next highest die is extremely punishing in my opinion, espescially when you don't have a lot of dice (like in the Video when you only have 3 dice). So I will use the choice only when my players already have a relatively high value (5D and more) and when it's not deadly (getting killed only because of bad luck is just not to my tast, and probably not to the taste of my players ^^).
An exception to the Roll would be when you determine what zone you hit on a person or what kind of damage you get when the vehicle or ship is lightly or heavily damaged. Rerolling on a 6 would just make no sense here as well as the options for rolling a 1 ^^ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Red 331
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 215
Location: Nebraska
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quetzacotl wrote: | Well, to begin with, there are 3 possibilities when rolling a 1 on the wild die, not 2.
The third one is "just add the 1 normally". So the first roll of 1, 2 and 3 (1 being the wild die) would simply be a 6 without any complication.
|
Thanks for the reminder about the third option when the wild die roll is a 1. There does seem to be a lot of leeway in determining the affect of a 1 roll on the wild die. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Np ^^
When I frist read the Rules I was happy that there was that "simply do nothing" choice, the dice are hard to predict as is already ^^ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We've recently taken to doing something just a little different with the wild die.
6. If you roll a six, you get to keep rolling, adding to your total until you dont roll a six.
5-2. Add the number to your total normally.
1. This is where things are a little different for us. On a 1, you cancel your highest die. If you roll a 1 on the wild die, you always keep rolling the wild die until you do not roll a 1. After the initial 1, any other number rolled is not applied to your total. We've had some really good rolls go south REAL fast with a runaway wild die that comes up "1" a few times, . . .
If your final total is below "0", something bad happens.
In the end, the most important thing is to do what is right for your own group. If you dont like the wild die, throw it out! If you want to modify the system, go for it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wow, not that is even more punishing then the original rules.
But well, if you have fun with it, good for you 
I guess that the "death rate" of your games has increased since then, right? (Maybe I'm completely off here, I tend to don't like any changes that increase reliance on luck, without giving them a chance ^ ^) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, the death rate had not gone up since implementing the rule. But it is more common for a ship's guns to malfunction, or a gun to jam in the middle of a fight.
We actually started it as a joke one afternoon when we were discussing how an impressive bounty hunter like Boba Fett could have the bad streak of luck that landed him in the sarlacc pit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
That's really not that bad Guard, if there is a high level character like Boba Fett rolling, he would have to roll a lot of 1s to cancel out each of his dice for a 9 or 10D blaster skill, which is as statistically improbable as blowing up a Death Star with a hold out blaster pistol.
9D blaster skill shot rolls 1 takes out his first highest, he'd have to roll 7 more 1s to get zero or lower. It's not a bad idea. It also gives a little more guideline to when "something bad" happens.
_________________
RR
________________________________________________________________ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah, thats kind of how we see it. Our group calls it "Critical Failure" when someone rolls more than one "1" at a time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quetzacotl wrote: | | Substracting the 1 and the next highest die is extremely punishing in my opinion, espescially when you don't have a lot of dice (like in the Video when you only have 3 dice). So I will use the choice only when my players already have a relatively high value (5D and more) and when it's not deadly (getting killed only because of bad luck is just not to my tast, and probably not to the taste of my players ^^). |
I kind of like how harsh the loss of 2D is on a bad 1... really highlights how easy it is to mess things up, just like in real life Though, really, if you're at less than 5D, losing the lowest, losing the highest, or losing both isn't really going to make that big a difference in the likelihood of success; any negative to your roll at all is likely to result in failure. Barring a complication, failing by 3 or failing by 15 are exactly the same result.
I'm a player who rolls a lot of 1s, so I'm not speaking as someone who's rarely affected by such ruling
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quetzacotl wrote: | wow, not that is even more punishing then the original rules.
But well, if you have fun with it, good for you |
That depends on what you mean by "original" The Wild Die rules are different between the 2E and the R&E. I did an article a while back or the D6 Magazine that investigates the rules across the WEG books and some OpenD6 materials. THey had various degrees of punishing rules. Some even went so far as to treat a 1 as an automatic critical failure. Which is, in my opinion, WAY too punishing.
But anyway, here's the shameless plug for the article. You'll also find some interesting tidbits written by Grimace in this issue:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/101581/d6-Magazine-Issue-4
| Guardian_A wrote: | We've recently taken to doing something just a little different with the wild die.
*ship*
1. This is where things are a little different for us. On a 1, you cancel your highest die. If you roll a 1 on the wild die, you always keep rolling the wild die until you do not roll a 1. After the initial 1, any other number rolled is not applied to your total. We've had some really good rolls go south REAL fast with a runaway wild die that comes up "1" a few times, . . .
If your final total is below "0", something bad happens.
|
How very interesting. I'd love to see how that works in game.
| Guardian_A wrote: | | In the end, the most important thing is to do what is right for your own group. If you dont like the wild die, throw it out! If you want to modify the system, go for it! |
That's pretty much the theme of my article. Look at what is out there, and decide what promotes the most enjoyment in your group.
For me, I run it a little different from the RAW. I do a variation on the complication method. I say that you look at the total, count it up and see if you succeed or fail. THEN you add the complication. It's possible to succeed but have a complication. SUch as a time when one of my players wanted to jump across a busy skyscape and into an open-roof transport full of stormies. He pretty much planned on being able to mow throough them. However, he rolled a 1. Now, it would be pretty punishing if I said that he failed (regardless of how high he rolled) and plummeted to the street below. So, I said that he merely had a complication. Namely, that two or three of those stormies were actually Royal Guards put into uniform and put in the rank and file to keep their battle readiness at peak abilities. What was originally a "mow through them" idea turned into hard fight.
Of course, I only do this when thematically relevant. There are some times you just can't rack your brain well enough to get the idea. Then, either taking out the highest and lowest or just adding it up normally is what we do.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cheshire wrote: | | That depends on what you mean by "original" The Wild Die rules are different between the 2E and the R&E. I did an article a while back or the D6 Magazine that investigates the rules across the WEG books and some OpenD6 materials. THey had various degrees of punishing rules. Some even went so far as to treat a 1 as an automatic critical failure. Which is, in my opinion, WAY too punishing. |
Tahnks for the Info. I only know the 2nd R&E Rules, so when i mean "original" I will always refer to those ^^
| cheshire wrote: | | For me, I run it a little different from the RAW. I do a variation on the complication method. I say that you look at the total, count it up and see if you succeed or fail. THEN you add the complication. It's possible to succeed but have a complication. |
Isn't that exactly how the 2nd R&E RAW are? In one example thanik (i hope it was him -.-) tried to dodge and got a 1. He still succeeded the Dodge, but hit the deck and hid at a door entrance, which then openend revealing some persons that weren't on good foot with him (so next round they would attack as well).
That sounds to me like exactly the same thing you described ^^
Although, I have to say, I personally find it strange that a 1 on the wild die for a skill roll (like dodge) can actually change the environment (because of the 1, there are suddenly enemies behind the door. because of the 1, some of the Stromtroopers changed to Royal Guards spontaneously and so on).
I would probably go with something like "you manage to dodge the bullet, but in the process tumble over your own two feet, which makes you fall down to the ground. You're prone". But it would of course limit the diversity of the complication a lot... I just thought it was strange ^^ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
I spent a LOT of time pouring over the various rule variations, and the R&E is rather vague in one area. It doesn't specify whether you are supposed to give a normal success or failure in addition to the complication, though their examples seem to assume a failure with the complication.
I do several things to introduce complications, some are environmental. For example, if you dive behind a crate to doge out of the way, you may notice that you have taken cover behind a crate marked "EXPLOSIVES." You may tumble and drop your datapad with the encrypt key, and have to retrieve it from an awkward position. But, yeah, I do mine with considerable lattitude. I try to make it as focused on the skill roll as possible, but may do a few other things to the surrounding environment. However, I try not to make it unrelated to the scenario. It would make no sense if you bungled a didge roll and for some reason you speeder. 300 feet away, blew up.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: To Wild Die or not to Wild Die |
|
|
| Red 331 wrote: | I know from the 2nd R&E rulebook that "The wild die rule counts for all die rolls in the game, including skill and attribute checks, weapon damage, and rolling Perception for initiative" (Page 74), but am still a little confused at times.
Is there EVER an exception to this rule? |
Officially.. There are only 2 instances you do NOT have a wild die roll when doing a roll for something in SW D6.
1) When resisting turning to the dark side
2) when rolling while at mortally wounded to see if you pass away.
Other than those 2 situations, all rolls get a wild die on them.
| Red 331 wrote: |
And what are all the situations where you do NOT reroll a 6 on the wild die, or when you do NOT either use a complication or deduct the 1 rolled by the wild die and the highest remaining die as a result of the rolling of a 1 on the wild die? |
BTB there are no clarifications to when you complicate it, or when you just subtract.. that is left to each dm.
| Quote: | | Yeah, I think I always use the wild die, as an exploding/limiting die... but there are several instances where I don't apply complications. Complications make sense in a lot of cases, but not everywhere. Resisting damage, for example, I don't apply complications (though a 1 would still take it and the highest die out of the total); a complication doesn't really make a lot of sense there outside of the basic nature of taking damage. |
I do include it on damage.. How else do yo get scars?!! 
| Quote: | Well, to begin with, there are 3 possibilities when rolling a 1 on the wild die, not 2.
The third one is "just add the 1 normally". So the first roll of 1, 2 and 3 (1 being the wild die) would simply be a 6 without any complication.
Personally, I have only played a SW D6 session once and that was a few days ago (me being the GM), so I can't really speak from experience, but most times I will probably go with this third choice, unless I can come up with something interesting for a complication on the spot.
Substracting the 1 and the next highest die is extremely punishing in my opinion, espescially when you don't have a lot of dice (like in the Video when you only have 3 dice). So I will use the choice only when my players already have a relatively high value (5D and more) and when it's not deadly (getting killed only because of bad luck is just not to my tast, and probably not to the taste of my players ^^).
An exception to the Roll would be when you determine what zone you hit on a person or what kind of damage you get when the vehicle or ship is lightly or heavily damaged. Rerolling on a 6 would just make no sense here as well as the options for rolling a 1 ^^ |
Very true Quet.. there are three possibilities..
Usually i do the 'subtract both the 1 and the highest other die. I only ever go the route of the 'add it in as normal' on very routine rolls when they have also burned a FP..
So for me its
option 1) subtract both the wild/other die being the most common
2) complication being the mid common
3) add as normal, being the least.
This is why i subscribe to the method that the player tells you BOTH results..
EG i rolled either a 30 OR a 37 (minusing a 6 and the wild die 1) with a possible complication.
| Quote: | | I kind of like how harsh the loss of 2D is on a bad 1... really highlights how easy it is to mess things up, just like in real life Razz |
Very true.. I have had many situations where cause of the 1 on the wild, all they had left was just the +1 or +2 pips in the skill.
| Quote: | Isn't that exactly how the 2nd R&E RAW are? In one example thanik (i hope it was him -.-) tried to dodge and got a 1. He still succeeded the Dodge, but hit the deck and hid at a door entrance, which then openend revealing some persons that weren't on good foot with him (so next round they would attack as well).
That sounds to me like exactly the same thing you described ^^ |
Or one of my personal fave situations i dm'ed for.. PC had used demo to prime a bloc of detonite around an incendiary grenade and rolled to hit the enemy with it (had the trigger set for impact).. Rolled a 1 wild on both the throwing roll AND The demo roll.. Even subtracting the wild and the highest other die, he still hit with the toss... so the complication is he thought he set the detonator properly.. but forgot to 'pull the pin;....
So now his enemy is bruised and peeved... AND has the explosive in hand!
| Quote: | I spent a LOT of time pouring over the various rule variations, and the R&E is rather vague in one area. It doesn't specify whether you are supposed to give a normal success or failure in addition to the complication, though their examples seem to assume a failure with the complication.
|
Some of the more "colorful" complications i have had even with them succeeding the roll.
A) they are cracking a computer to get info out and succeed brilliantly (15+ over what was needed) but had a complication on the die... They tripped a virus program that embedded in their datapad.
B) Tried to hack the comms of some stormies to listen in and made the diff either way, but the complication is they keyed the mike to be a hot mike (so when the party spoke, they transmitted to the imperials)..
C) A melee attack against an imp infiltrator (Storm commando) hit well in excess of 20+ over.. damage was 20+ over kill as well.. but both the to hit and damage rolls had 1's on the wild die... So the complication was he buried the hilt of the dagger he used so far into the enemy, it broke the blade off in him...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
