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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: Rules for Silenced Weapons |
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So, since there are no concrete rules for rolling Perception vs. Silent Weapons, how do you house rule this? I know Rules of Engagement has some basic ideas, but nothing seems to fit well. Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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There must be a distance to the thing, since any suppressed weapon, no matter the quality, will be un-hearable at a certain distance.
So I think you need ranges, maybe like E/M/VD 2-5/12/25 or something (anything point blank would be Very Easy).
Other than that.... (scratches head)
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | There must be a distance to the thing, since any suppressed weapon, no matter the quality, will be un-hearable at a certain distance.
So I think you need ranges, maybe like E/M/VD 2-5/12/25 or something (anything point blank would be Very Easy).
Other than that.... (scratches head) |
In RoE, the various silent weapons reference a modifier to the Perception / Search difficulty required to detect the firing of a silenced weapon, but I can't recall ever reading anything else on the subject. Perhaps the base difficulty to detect the firing signature of a weapon could be equal to the To Hit difficulty, based on the range bracket, with difficult modifiers based on how silent the weapon is.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Spitball me some numbers, I'm not quite sure I follow completely.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Spitball me some numbers, I'm not quite sure I follow completely. |
I think I was thinking parallel to you, but basing the range to detect on the weapon's range.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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The best RAW treatment on silencers is in RoE on pages 62-63, and offers the following:
"Firearms are not as powerful as blasters and lack range, but have the added advantage that they can be silenced, while a blaster cannot. Without a silencer, a firearm is very loud and can be heard for several hundred meters under ideal conditions."
"Merr-Sonn Silencer: Absorbs the sound of a firearm, preventing the need for a Perception check when fired."
"Silenced Slugthrower: Makes very little noise, adding only +1 to opponent's Search."
"Air Gun: Makes very little noise, adding only +2 to opponent's Search to detect."
The general impressions I get is that WEG wrote up stats that paid lip service to the idea of stealthy weapons fire, without actually providing functioning rules for using them in a game.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16. |
That sounds much simpler. Maybe a flat difficulty of 15, which is then modified by the silencing factor of the weapon itself, so that the character gets a +1 or +2 bonus to detect the shot.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16. |
Most modern firearms' suppressed report is over 100db. That's awfully easy to hear at 20m. I can accept, though, that Star Wars suppressors could be much better. Active noise canceling could even produce true silencers...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Most modern firearms' suppressed report is over 100db. That's awfully easy to hear at 20m. I can accept, though, that Star Wars suppressors could be much better. Active noise canceling could even produce true silencers... |
The stat for a dedicated add-on silencer says that eliminates the Perception check entirely, so perhaps there is some active dampening involved. For the others, not all of the silenced weapons in RoE are guns the way we think of them; some are more like airsoft / paintball, while others use bowstrings or coiled springs to generate kinetic energy.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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But the actual firing doesn't make the bulk of the noise, it's the sonic boom of the projectile. Subsonic rounds (low damage) can be silenced effectively, but anything worth shooting can't.
But that's science, and science can be a real bummer.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | But the actual firing doesn't make the bulk of the noise, it's the sonic boom of the projectile. Subsonic rounds (low damage) can be silenced effectively, but anything worth shooting can't.
But that's science, and science can be a real bummer. |
True, and that's why the most effective silenced weapons listed in RoE are the silenced pistols. I'm currently working on some Warhammer tech stats, and one of those is a gyro-jet bolt shell that allows a silenced round to maintain velocity at range by using a compressed gas drive to keep the round traveling at longer firing distances.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | But the actual firing doesn't make the bulk of the noise, it's the sonic boom of the projectile. |
Hence the active noise canceling. | jmanski wrote: | Subsonic rounds (low damage) can be silenced effectively, but anything worth shooting can't.
But that's science, and science can be a real bummer. |
.458 SOCOM is worth shooting, which is saying something 'cause it's expensive!
I completely agree with the core of what you're saying as pertains to the real world. Just remember a few fictional elements like force fields and such can turn the tables on science if you want to allow it in your game.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16. |
Most modern firearms' suppressed report is over 100db. That's awfully easy to hear at 20m. I can accept, though, that Star Wars suppressors could be much better. Active noise canceling could even produce true silencers... |
Where you getting that figure from? Having been at a range in iraq where we had people on the line shooting the M16/M4, as well as H&K MP5s as well as the silenced versions, i can tell ya someone standing 9 rows away with a regular MP5 was heard a lot easier than someone 2 lanes over with a silenced mp5.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it would be better to say that pistol or machine-pistol sized weapons can be silenced, while larger rifle and carbine scale slugthrowers can only be suppressed? My understanding is that a suppressed rifle shot can still be detected as such, just at a much shorter range, and that it is difficult to locate the source of the shot even if you do hear it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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