Shock Boxing Gloves

[DrWorm]

We were playing tonight and we hit a snag early. My character has modified shock boxing gloves that can deal lethal damage, but there is a bit of an inconsistancy. Melee weapons have a max damage, but these gloves do not, and another player felt that was not entirely fair. We settled on 5D max when they are set to lethal, which makes them less effective for me (I have 3D+2 STR), but I said I would put it out to the community. Another suggestion that I made was to give them very limited charges when set to lethal, but the player with the vibro-something had a problem with me not having a cap.

Should these have a cap when used in this way.

Note: we all share GM duties, so we all have to agree.

[garhkal]

In the few instances i have heard/seen shock boxing gloves set for lethal, they were just +1d above brawl. So were NOT capped cause brawl is not capped..
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[cheshire]

I would say that it's fair to have limited charges, and/or a damage cap. Honestly, I think that shock boxing gloves are a little strange in that the energy is the thing making it a stun weapon, but somehow your strength increases the stun capacity? It just leaves me scratching my head as to how that works.

However, I would say that the damage and charge maximum have to be taken into consideration with other factors surrounding the item. Do the appear on weapons scanners? How easily concealed is the weapon? Are they classified as weapons on a majority of planets? How much noise do they make upon use? These are the things I would question. If they have greater transferability between borders, and are likely to go undetected, then 5D sounds like a good cap. They're gaining a good deal of other advantages for what amounts to the same amount of damage done with a heavy blaster. Granted, they can only be used at point-blank range, but if you could sneak up, and silently kill an NPC in one shot, then you don't need any greater damage to unbalance a game.

However, if they're noisy, easily recognizable, and are going to be treated with as much or more suspicion than an average blaster AND you can only use it point blank, then the player may be unfairly hindered.
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[Fallon Kell]

A lot of barabel can do 5D lethal damage with a punch even without a specia,l lethal, shock boxing glove... I've been considering a rule of diminishing returns on maximum melee damage. Maybe have a soft cap, and you split the difference in damage between the cap and the total uncapped damage?
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[garhkal]

Since shock boxing and shock ball are the 2 main televised sports so it seems, i would say they would be easily recognizable most anywhere you go.
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[DrWorm]

[Esoomian]

Just a question, why would you want them to do lethal damage?

Stun damage gets someone out of the fight quicker and you're considered more humane.
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[Raven Redstar]

Esoomian has a point. Stun damage in many ways is more effective than lethal. 4 points of damage equates to unconsciousness for several minutes. Ample time to tie up, apply additional sedatives, and drop them off with local authorities. Or, have prisoners for command to interrogate.
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[DrWorm]

[vanir]

Try reasoning them out like a tazer with enough tuning up to do potentially lethal electrocution. Let's say it does 4D electrical (lethal) damage if you calmly rest it on someone's skin and do a full burst. Now when used in melee you don't get that kind of contact, you get a moment's contact during a blow. So you might say this suped up tazer does Str+1D electrical damage, adding to the lethality of the blow with the electrocution damage. But you'd still cap it at 4D because that's the most electrical damage it does with a good, sustained contact normally.

Now here's the thing, you might say that even when not switched on it still adds +1D bludgeoning damage, and this might have a higher cap than the electrical damage. Let's say the construction of the ubertazer itself is very solid, metallic and as good as a club. You might cap the bludgeoning damage at 5D like a good club instead of 4D for its maximum electrical capacity.

So you might have two damage caps for this ubertazer, it does Str+1D but its electrical damage is capped at 4D, and the bludgeoning damage is capped at 5D.

Say I have 4D Str, the force of my blow does more bludgeoning damage than the capacity of the ubertazer to do electrocution damage. So I roll 5D bludgeoning damage using it in melee.
But say I have 3D Str, the force of my blow is still within the capacity of the item to do electrocution damage, so I roll 4D electrical damage with a hit, which some armours may have less resistance to.


Now without looking up shock gloves on my other computer (it's switched off), I'm guessing they don't have a bludgeoning damage rating but just a stun damage normally. This would mean they don't add to brawling damage as bludgeoning weapons not being designed for lethal blows, they're soft and padded and just release a stunning shock energy.

So if you've tuned them to be lethal, yes you should have a cap on the maximum electrocution damage they can do. Your normal brawling damage could very well exceed this rating. If so, pick the greater of the two to apply.
What the damage cap is would reflect the lethality of the electrical charge capacity in the gloves. 6D is pretty over the top for something you might accidentally pat someone on the back with, 4D is blaster bolt damage from an average pistol and that would be pretty lethal for an electrocution rating on a small handy item like shock gloves.

Generally unless you've a Str rating under 4D they could raise it up to that lethal blaster pistol damage, a high energy rating, but when your Str is 4D and higher you're talking about the Arnie and Dolph Lundgren or Sly Stallone of the old silly action movies, who just snaps your neck by grabbing it and twisting. That's what a 4D Str damage has just done. And it's just as lethal as an electrocution, either way the average person is very dead or incapacitated. At 5D Str damage you're talking about getting hit by a car. It wouldn't matter a bit if the front of the car was electrified or not.


So I'm suggesting maybe come at it like that. Try not to force a valuable asset onto an item because you like it, but rule upon it as if one of your Players was to have this item.
Often when you make cool new items and give them to NPCs the Players will seek them out (or shoot the NPC and take it), because they like cool items too.
So don't rule on it as something you want, but really assess game balance and logic of various weapons as if Players will be using it. Put in the balance so new items/modifications make sense to all parties.

[DrWorm]

[Gamer]

You can't figure out why the others don't like your modified -to lethal damage- with gloves that are already customized to do variable +1D to +3D?
The standard gloves only do +1D stun, ONLY the customized gloves of Tull Raine ever did the variable above +1D damage and used no energy.
Let me guess the 'cost' is from a netbook.

you would have to pull something very compelling out of your butt just to keep me from laughing at you much less letting you have them.
I would never allow any player (even an npc)to have such a weapon as is.
Even stun gauntlets only do +2D and have 10 charges.

[garhkal]

I'd allow it as a jury rig, but the complication if the jury rig dice flub is YOU get hit for full damage.
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[DrWorm]

[garhkal]

IIRC shock boxing gloves initially came out in one of the Adventure journals.. then were reprinted in the Gundarks book.
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