Deriving Starship Part Costs

[Jachra]

I've been fiddling with Krapou's starship creation rules (also seen here, and I generally like them, but one issue I have is that I'm not sure how to derive the parts of individual ship parts (for Repair and Modification purposes.)

Is there a good guideline I can use based on the CP of the part? The TOTAL craft cost depends on its totaled CP, but that could include a lot of elements...
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"Jumping through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy."

[Fallon Kell]

I've worked a lot with Krapou/Grimace/Ships of the Galaxy system, and even have my own 99% complete evolution of the system. I do love it, but one drawback it has is in the field of modifications. While accurate, the modification process is labour intensive.

I tally up the cost of the spaceframe under Krapou's system before and after the modifications, ignoring any canon values or what the players actually paid for the ship. I then subtract the original cost from the modified cost, and the result is the actual cost of the modification.

I use this system for actual professional engineered modifications. No mishaps or anything, and you can jury rig on top of these mods. This is because they tend to get exorbitantly expensive real fast.

For jury-rigging, I use the system in GG6:Tramp Freighters.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier

Complete Starship Construction System

[Jachra]

I would be extremely curious to see your system for this. I worked out a rough way to do it (as in, total the cost in CP before weapons and sensors and proportionally assign a per-CP price), but I'm concerned about the numbers I'm getting there. Take, for example, the Corellian corvette variant we have:

Tython
Corellian Engineering Corporation CR45 deep space corvette

Size: 120 meters
Hull/Shields: 4D/4D+2
Consumables: 2 years
Life Support: 1000
Docking: Medium 4
Cargo: 1,000 MT
Crew: 250
Space: 8
Atmosphere: 365; 1,050 kmh
Maneuverability: 2D
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1 / x8
Weapons:
- (Starfighter) Laser Cannons x8 (turrets on each side of the hull): Damage 4D, Fire Control: 2D, Range: 1-3 / 12 / 25
- (Capital) Heavy Ion Cannon x1 (ventral turret): Damage 4D, Fire Control 2D, Range 1-3 / 7 / 36
- (Starfighter) Tractor Beam x1 (aft): Damage 5D, Fire Control 2D, Range 1-3 / 12 / 20
- (Capital) Heavy Turbolaser cannon x1 (dorsal turret), Damage 5D, Fire Control 2D, 3-15 / 35 / 75

Sensors:
Passive: 40/1D
Scan: 80/2D
Search: 100/3D
Focus: 5/4D

Cost:
Total: 4,090,250cr
Before Weapons and Sensors: 3,980,000cr
Chassis: 1,312,960 (64cp) (counts Size, Hull, Crew, Life Support)
Cargo: 287,210 (14cp)
Hangar: 287,210 (14cp)
Consumables: 328,240 (16cp)
Hyperdrive: 492,360 (24cp)
Hyperdrive backup: 123,090 (6cp)
Main Engine: 410,300 (20cp)
Thrusters: 246,180 (12cp)
Shields 492,360 (24cp)
Total: 194cp
Cost/CP: 20,515cr

Sensors: 56,000cr

Weapon Costs (per unit)
Laser Cannons: 3,750cr
Tractor Beam: 2,500cr
Heavy Turbolaser: 27,000cr
Heavy Ion Cannon: 22,500cr

I suppose those numbers are decent. It may take a great deal to get a hyperdrive in a capital vessel, after all. I find it slightly alarming that it costs more than many light freighters, but that's the cost of doing business, eh?

My biggest concern is this complicates greatly doing replacement parts. If the entire vehicle cost is elastic, that makes replacing any given part a little weird. Has anyone playtested this at all, or have a good opinion on it?
(A friend and player points out that this isn't necessarily a bug - after all, replacing a part means that there would be various knock-on effects throughout the ship that need to be worked out, and increase the cost of future repairs.)

On that note, are there any alternative ship creation rules that are any good? I like this one, but if there's a better one I'd be very interested in seeing it.

EDIT: Last addendum - the thing that strikes me as the strangest, flat-out, is that Sensor prices at 10x for the same effect on capital ships, but there's no explanation why.
A capital ship should probably have better sensors than a fighter craft by the simple fact of more space to put (and no need to miniaturize.) What are the sensors doing that they need to be 10 times as expensive for the same benefit?

The other issue I might add is basically irrelevant, but it seems it breaks down for much larger vessels. Really, considering their value and scale, ISDs should be more than 14 mil, even if that is the official number, by at least an order of magnitude.
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"Jumping through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy."

[atgxtg]

I've been working on an alternate system, but it is nowhere near finished. D6 Space Ships is only semi-compatible at best, but does give component prices.


As far as the x10 cost for capital ship sensors, I would assume that capital ships have more than one set of sensors and have multiple people operating them simultaneously. There is probably somebody scanning each arc, another guy doing a 360 sweep, a couple of guys doing focused scans on targets, and a few backups.

[Bren]

[atgxtg]

[Ray]

"Retreat, in our hour of triumph?"

[atgxtg]

[vanir]

We use a lot of Player starship engineering and modification in our games.

A simple ad hoc system we put into play was separating starship engineering from modification and using special rules for starfighters (due to stripped down high performance construction, it's like comparing a station wagon to an F1 racecar or an Airbus to a fighter jet).

Any modification to starfighters requires re-engineering. It's an involved process but typically you can't improve any dice code (eg. manoeuvrability) beyond your (A) Starfighter Engineering or (A) Starship Weapons Engineering skill dice (eg. for improved fire control or weapon damage). Additionally you must spend Character Points to improve starfighter stats through modification (re-engineering) like a character sheet. So improving Move, Space: 8 to 9 costs 8 CP and a reliable Easy series of engineering rolls, at the very least. The Player also has to draw up what the rebuilt starfighter looks like. Costing is a percentage of the ship cost listing new as a base.
It is expensive and difficult and talented engineers are a bit single minded and not much good at anything else like being a bounty hunter say.
Essentially in our game, when you modify a starfighter, because it is already built/designed as an extreme high performance craft, a modified one is always a specially constructed prototype. So costs CP.

It gets much easier with ubiquitous designs like transports, which are built to be fitted for cargo or crew capacity and have hull space for additional systems and modifications.

We split it into two realms: modification (using starship repair skill) or engineering (using the advanced skill).
For modification it's essentially jury rigging using the GG6 guide. You have mishaps or else you use up cargo space with more powerful systems sold off the shelf.
For re-engineering what you do is make the jury rigging modifications using the GG6 guide but make advanced skill rolls instead of starship repair rolls for difficulties, and you get to play with the ship stat sheet more.
Add a skeleton crew difficulty factor of +5 for each system modified to cancel its mishaps, so when professionally engineered a souped up freighter has the benefits of a hotrod but no mishaps, but has increased crew to operate the updated systems.

eg. I want to put manoeuvring thrusters on my YT-1300 so it goes from 0D base to 1D. Normally a +2 mishap modifier so now my 1 or 2 crew YT has a skeleton crew difficulty of +5 for the modified system with 1 crew and has a normal crew of 2.
Now I want to raise speed so I put in Evader-GT drives at cargo cost for a speed of 8, but want it faster so modify those to 9 at a +2 mishap modifier. To cancel this my skeleton crew difficulty rating increases to +10 for 1 crew.
I can further lower this back to a skeleton difficulty of +5 by adding another crew member (pilot, copilot and flight engineer), so I can have a normal crew of 2 with a skeleton of 1/+10 or a normal crew of 3 with a skeleton of 2/+5. I must select which I prefer during re-engineering/modification and it is set in stone until further modified.
Which allows for many more systems to be modified, without mishap modifiers, with increased crew or skeleton difficulties.
Optionally Players can use the starfighter engineering system and spend CP to increase dice/speed codes instead with no penalty except costing CP to do it.
Using these guidelines you can also exceed the normal 1D+2 modification limitation on any individual system, so can get to the 6D hull and 2D manoeuvrability of the Falcon from a 4D base hull and 0D YT manoeuvrability, if you have increased crew to at least 2 and a skeleton rating on the earlier minimum crew listing (reconciles the Falcon mods with the stock YT as achievable by players with a common system, the Falcon is essentially partially re-engineered and partially jury rigged, with most of the jury rigging just involving the hyperdrives).

So we're still using the GG6 as a large part of costing guide.

[nimatri]

There is probably somebody scanning each arc, another guy doing a 360 sweep


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