A Rancor as a PC [Fluffy]

[Boomer]

Everyone stopped listening and using logic pages ago. I give up.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Gry Sarth]

Well now.... isn't that special.


I don't believe I ever saw such a demonstration of childish stubborn behavior here in this forum before. It's common enough all around the internet, but we have a good thing going here. It's a sad day....

Boomer, pull yourself together man! The Threat Dossier is an official EU book, just as official as the Courtship of Princess Leia on which it's based. If it says Dathomirian Rancors are sentient and allows them as a player species, then that's just what they are.
Of course, I would never recognize this inside my adventures, I don't want a PC rancor, it would wreck my game, so that's my option.

I read the Courtship of Princes Leia and I agree with you that those rancors didn't seem all that bright, but if the Threat Dossier is saying they are, then I guess we didn't see al they could do in the novel.


PS: This post is in response to Boomer's post right above, which he edited to remove all his long rant.

[Boomer]

My rant was self defeating as it made the point several times that there should be no rant.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Darth_Kjeran]

Chello!

Cats aren't sapient? But rancors are?

Tony
_________________
“A Royal Guardsman never seeks special privileges. Ever. His entire goal in life is to serve the Emperor, and the New Order he created. His goal in life, and his desire in death.”
Major Tierce, Star Wars: Specter of the Past

[Gry Sarth]

Here we go again.

Rancors ARE NOT sentient.

Dathomirian rancors, however, barely are.

[Darth_Kjeran]

Chello!

Sorry, I was proceeding under the assumption that they were only on Dathomir!

But what about cats?



Tony
_________________
“A Royal Guardsman never seeks special privileges. Ever. His entire goal in life is to serve the Emperor, and the New Order he created. His goal in life, and his desire in death.”
Major Tierce, Star Wars: Specter of the Past

[Ray]

Are you childishly stubborn, Fluffy?

"Am child at heart."

I'll take that as a yes.

[Cazziuz]

Ray, make a book or something.
You would earn a fortune whit Fluffy by your side!
Well, at least I would buy it

But has the rancor discussion come to an end?
Will we no longer hear the upset voice of people arguing about these special creatures? And what about Fluffy? Will he ever get to repair his beloved starfighter?

Surly this cannot be the end?

oh, and to get back on topic, well yeah, why not play as a Rancor as long as it fits into the crazy game your'e running
_________________
The more one knows, the more one forgets, the more one forgets, the less you know, the less you know, the less you forget, the less you forget, the more you know.

[Boomer]

I had given up posting, and was only going to check in to see "The Adventures of Fluffy".

But Cazzius, that sounds like a request. So, for fluffy's sake, let's keep arguing until fluffy can't stand it anymore.

First, someone brought up the word Sapient, thank you so much. The word is sapient for what we are talking about. Sentient has the definition as posted by Kehlin Yew.

But the line in the threat dossier is "almost sentient", which I disagree with as
1) No such thing as almost, you either are or arn't.
2) I do not beleive intelligence is the basis. It is possible for a sapient to be unintelligent, or to make themselves unintelligent. There are some humans who clearly do not posess the problem solving capabilities of dogs, despite their ability to speak english and clearly communicate they would do something so stupid a dog wouldn't respect their opinion.
3) The rancor in the book do not demonstrate any capapbility greater than that of a gorilla's. While the rancor does understand up to 10 symbols in the witch's symbology, that is nowhere near a gorilla's capacity to understand an average of 500 english words. Not symbols, whole words!

I do not think the gorilla's ability to understand english that well is the basis for sapience, why should a rancor who can't even begin to fathom the alphabet be sapient? No one can explain to me that a gorilla does not demonstrate it, a rancor does not demonstrate it, so why call either of them sapient.

And if anyone wants to know my definition of sapience, well that would be nice. Except the argument didn't come up until about a few centuries ago, and in all that time no one has bothered to properly define the qualities into simple words.
Most of the qualities and conditions that need to be met can be met by almost every animal on the planet, which shows you how intelligent the people who came up with those conditions are as they do not even study animals to the point to fully seperate them from humans. Unless of course their goal is to convince humans we are just animals... dun dun dun!!!

In my opinion, it is this very conversation which seperates us from animals. While there is a parrot at MIT who is surfing the web right now, he could not participate in this conversation because these are not thoughts that ever crosses a parrots mind. Animals do not care for such an abstract conversation of what "is" and "isn't" inside of our heads. They analyze true capabilities, outside influence, not a bunch of hairless apes sending symbols to each other about how they "feel", "think", and the like. Dolhpins probably do beleive themselves as more intelligent as they would see the pain and frustration we put ourselves through just talking to each other, and wonder why we dont simply fight each other, have sex, or leave each other alone.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Endwyn]

Humans are animals. Animals can be sentient.

The threat dossier didn't say "near sentient" is says:

[Kehlin Yew]

um guys... you are making everything way too literal... basing too much on what you know... and not enough about what it really is..

This is a made up world/universe.... it is what George, and the authors say...
really sorry if this steps on anyones toes, but you argue too much...

Its made up.. if the book says "A talented few, such as Tosh, can even communicate these ideas to other sentients." then... that certain race of rancor is sentient....

it says nothing about any of the other rancors in the universe... just that one species...

[Hellcat]

[Boomer]

Hellcat, you are what pisses me off.

I keep trying to make the point that animals are quite intelligent, and that it is not intelligence but certain mental capabilities that define sentience.

Than some-one else says "No Boomer, u r r0ngz0rz! It iznt smarts! My cat r smartz!". Have I not said dolhpins are geniuses? Have I not mentioned my cat passed that stupid mirror test with flying colors?

Earlier I was even accused of childish stubborn behavior. Stubborn certainly, for I am still here. But childish, demonstrating I am capapble of reading and responding to what I read with a semblance of logic behind it is childish? Wanting to scream my brains out at the children here, that is quite adult.
Just admit you agree with me and quit trying to pretend you have an opposing viewpoint.

And Endwyn... I remember you posting that from the dossier earlier. Whoops, slipped my mind this wole time.

Yes, if Rancor, or any creature, were capable of that, the intelligence wouldn't matter and you could indeed say they were sentient.

But what still bugs me is that despite the threat dossier says it, not a single thing, a single thing at all, showed the rancors to be capable of that. That's where my argument had been coming from this entire time, what I had seen of the rancors.
Yes, if another rancor had the ability to relate to other sentient beings on that level, than sure it is sentient, and that ends it right there.



Now, I am done holding up this thread. ::lowers blaster:: And if the rest of us thread-jackers agree, 5 pages of this lunacy was too much. This should all return back to the original topic, now.

To answer you question hellcat, under normal circumstances I could not allow a Rancor PC.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Boomer]

...my typing sucks...

But, Hellcat, no matter what emotion goes through me, I should not let it control me. I am sorry, forgive me for hijakcing your thread.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Ray]

OK folks, feelings are appearing to get hurt, and this has gone *WAY* past the point of debarkation for this thread.

Don't make me have Fluffy control this forum!

"Pretty Flowers. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..."

After his nap, that is...