TK and DSPs

garhkal · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: TK and DSPs

Lets say jedi pc (or force user pc) A uses TK on baddie 4 holding him in place.
Party member B just cause, shoots and kills baddie 4.
By the rules, a force user who uses TK to directly or indirectly cause harm gets a DSP.
Should he get one in the above situation?
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vong · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:42 am Post subject:

I always play it as intent. If you intended to cause harm (or in this case hold him still so your buddy can shoot him) you get a DSP. if when your buddy shoots him you are shocked and get really pissed at him, then I would say no DSP. if you and your buddy high-fives after the kill DSP. The second time that your buddy does it without your knowledge I would give a DSP, cause you can now reasonably predict that your buddy will do that.

I never liked the indirectly part of that rule though... so many things can chain reaction that players are always afraid of using it. Butterfly effect and all.
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Barrataria · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject:

I'd say no, unless the jedi PC knew that was going to happen, or should have known (i.e. PC 2 is a bloodthirsty scalp-collecting rodian bounty hunter hopped up on spice).
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atgxtg · Rear Admiral Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460

I agree, no DSP here. The PC didn't intentionally use TK so set the bad guy up to get killed. He was just trying to stop the bad guy.

I think that what the authors meant by indirectly was for cases where a PC use TK in a clever way to kill somebody. Like opening an elevator door behind a bad guy so that he could fall down the shaft.

ZzaphodD · Rear Admiral Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2426

Bren · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

I agree with all four prior posters.

atgxtg · Rear Admiral Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460

We all agree?!!
There must be a divergence in the Force. As if a thousand voices suddenly cried out "No way!"

Surprised

vanir · Jedi Joined: 11 May 2011 Posts: 793

The morality play comes into how the Jedi PC responds to the PC which murdered the prisoner.

No DSP for the act itself, he didn't indirectly cause harm but another PC directly caused death. However there is such a thing as guilt by association, both in common law and therefore generally recognised social morality, legally charges range from obstruction of justice to being an accessory if the Jedi subsquently failed to act upon the fact his party members are murdering prisoners.

That would get him a DSP.

atgxtg · Rear Admiral Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460

Nothing in the post says that the PCs deliberately shot a prisoner. It is quite possible, and indeed likely given the description that the PC shot only and instant or so after the Jedi used TK, and probably had no idea that the held guy was harmless.

Morally, the Jedi is on pretty solid ground. The shooter probably is too. If the shooter knew that the Jedi had used TK to hold the bad guy and that the situation was under control, he might be at risk of a DSP, not the Jedi.

The only way the Jedi could be morally responsible would be if he had foreknowledge that the other PC would shoot down the guy once held.

The legal standpoint has no bearing on DSPs. Legally, during the time of the Republic the bad guy would be a fault for resisting the Jedi. During the time of the Empire, all Jedi are wanted criminals.

garhkal · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject:

Well, the guy who shot said flat out 'I shoot the held one".. I even asked him are you sure, and he rolled to hit as he said yes.
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vanir · Jedi Joined: 11 May 2011 Posts: 793

atgxt he said in his first post "Party member B just cause (just because), shoots and kills baddie 4."

I inferred correctly from what he wrote.

I brought in our earthly common law and related common social morality between developed nations as a distinct measure that actually, unless a variety of different nations and cultures are all involved in some alien conspiracy to corrupt humanism and sense of justice in how we govern ourselves, you could in fact suggest this has some allegorical relationship with a polling of large numbers of rational human beings as to what the moral view might be on just such a situation. Given these are similar views held everywhere from Communist China to Capitalist US or Siberian farming communities, or, anywhere.

Except people who get charged by anyone and everyone with war crimes of course. Weird huh?

atgxtg · Rear Admiral Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460

garhkal · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

Well, the one who shot was non force sensitive.... if that matters
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CRMcNeill · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject:

MattMartin23 · Lieutenant Commander Joined: 25 Jun 2012 Posts: 102

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