General Gming dilemmas..

[garhkal]

1) Do you feel a gm should be able to ignore a rule/change a rule (otherwise known as GM's fiat).

2) linked to 1, do you feel he should be able to do it IN GAME (especially if it has never came up before) and he feels that allowing it ruins part of his campaign, or just does not fit in with the campaign world.

3) Do you feel a player should be told the difficulty for an action he wishes to take? What if he asks???

4) Do you feel a player should always get a role, even if the roll has no chance of success? EG for a ad&d game (or star wars game which does not use a wild die type rule), that no matter how high he rolls the diff is so up there he cannot meet it.,.

5) Do you feel a GM should be able to tell a player he cannot do action XYZ.
E.g. 1. Player has never shown he does things off the fly, and even has it wrote in his personality he is by the book in stressful situations. His character is in s**t straits, and wishes to do something off the wall, and when asked, IN CHARACTER cannot come up with a reason for why he is wishing to do it, but AS PLAYER can.
EG 2. Player's character does not IN YOUR OPINION have the smarts to have even come up with said action, even if by the rules he should still have a chance of success..

My verdict..

1) AND 2) Unless you wish a game where the rules are carved in stone, a gm should ALWAYS be able to change rules/ignore them. BUT he should always be ready to explain his decisions, and if possible should make it after (or before) the game. In extremis, i can agree with a gm changing something on the fly if IN HIS OPINION it does not fit in with his game world, since he is it's creator/arbitrator, but this should be used RARELY!

3) This depends, mostly ON THE PLAYER. I have had some who enjoyed knowing what they needed, and others who when they found out the diff for actions (especially opposed actions in D6) threw hissie fits. Certainly if they ask then tell them.

4) Again this depends on the player themselves. I have had some who ×××××ed and moaned for me letting them roll, when there was not a chance of them meeting the difficulty, cause it "gave them false hope", and others who said they would rather not waste an action doing something hopeless.
As an example of one of these situations. AD&D game. Character have just got through the BBEG's minions, and are down to single digit hit points, but also are out of healing magic. The BBEG's spell he has just cast at them, EVEN IF IT ROLLS MINIMUM DAMAGE and they MAKE their saves, will still drop everyone down into the negatives (meaning since no one is there to heal them they will die from bleeding).

5) Whole heartedly. As in those 2 examples above, and in several others i have seen. Just cause rule X may allow something, does not mean it should always be allowed. IE. Rule says character can always make an intimidation check against people. BUT so far in the combat, not one of the characters have damaged the guy (and the one wishing to make the intimidation attempt has not even HIT HIM), the BBEG has already dropped 3 of the 5 characters and is defending his home. In most everyone’s opinion, there is no way in he** that character could justify being able to intimidate, but the rules say he should always get that chance.....

As an example of #5 in action, here are two I have seen from Star wars games…
Character took the base skill in armor repair, to nit holes closed in his flak suit. Has 1d+1 knowledge and tech due to certain damages taken (gm at the time has a chart of wounds you can take any time your character hits mortally wounded AND you go beyond 5 rounds of bleeding before someone gets to you). A little while before we went to face the BBEG he was wishing to come up with a suit of spun cortise ore. GM Ruled he cannot, for
a) how the hell does he even know what cortise ore is
b) just cause he may know how to repair a small hole in flak jackets, does not mean he can MAKE suits of armor and
c) his overall aptitude for construction is non existent (unless making crude stuff) as both his knowledge and tec are so low.

Character has no demolitions skill, or even grenade skill. He wishes to set a thermal detonator in a Tie Bomber’s Proton torp launcher so as to set them off in a chain reaction (ala Calista in Dark Saber).
I ruled he could not as he has no knowledge of how to do something as advanced as that.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Boomer]

I shall simply respond to the final statements about the character wanting to try things he didn't even learn.
Buy the damn armor, minor repair does NOT allow you to repair armor.

Demolitions can simply be attempted, but the difficulty is increased by 1 level for not having the skill. So he has how many dice in Technical? 1d+1? He needs to either spend many character points, or pray very hard. Setting up a Tie Fighters weapons to explode when used is already moderate difficulty for most people with 3d to roll, he only has 1d+1 and has to roll difficult.

And Armoring is an Advanced skill, I beleive. He needs 5d in armor repair, than he can take his first dice in Armoring, the ability to make brand new armor.
Or just buy one. Anything can be custom made.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[KageRyu]

1) Yes. The GM reserves the right to modify and change rules. A Good GM may run the new rule by the players first to get their input, but this is not required. Once changed, the rule should be consistant from that point on.

2) Qualified Yes - If the rule has never been used before, and the GM decides to change it, so be it. See 1. If the rule has been used, and the GM does not like it he can decide to change it, but shoudl A) Notify the players it is changed, and B)be consistant with the new rule from that point forward (i.e. not change it back to hamper players).

3) This is entirely at the GM's discretion. There are times when it is best to keep the difficulty secret from players to help build tension.

4) Is a matter of GM's choice. Sometimes, if the player insist on continually trying to do things beyond his ability I simply say "Look, you have no chance, your skill isn't sufficient, increase your skill if you wish to try these things". Other times, such as when situational modifiers add up, I may hint it is bayond their skill, but still require a roll to maintain drama or tension (no player likes to simply be told "NO").

5) At first when I read this I thought it to mean something different from your description. So i will give 2 answers to cover both:
A- If the player is acting out of his normal character, and can not give reason IN CHARACTER to explain it, I will not tell him he can not act that way because "it says on your character sheet", but I will advise him is playing outside his established character and penalize him a skill point or two.
B- If a character attempts something Ludicrous, like trying to intimidate an NPC that has already wasted half the party, or that clearly has the upper hand, I will still let the character make a skill roll, but: Short of pulling a thermal detonator, or calling down an orbital bombardment from a star destroyer to prove his point, the situational modifiers will be ludicrously high! (in the order of +25 to +30 on top of the NPCs roll)

The only times I usually come out and tell a player strait out that he can not do something is when the player is trying to cash in on "Player Knowledge", and even them I may role play it out to leave the character looking like a fool.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[blackjack]

1-2 only RARELY! , and not at cons unless it is to help pc's or to move story along
3 only if he asks (it takes to long if you say it every time) or lay it out so the can see every thing so they can be beter informed
4 no if there is no way they ca get it then it is jst a wast of time
5.no should be rare . but if it sounds like there is no way it could hapen with what they have then yes you can say no
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as long as no one says they have a bad "feeling" about this we will all be fine
(in the back ground you here i have a bad feeling about this ,on the ships com. )

[Trusty]

[Endwyn]

1-3: GM perogative.

4: Player's choice. A player should know when their in an impossible situation. I can't think of a situation they wouldn't know they "have no chance". But the truth is that they always have a chance. I've watched an Ewok climb on board a speeder bike and drive off, that ewok rolled something like a 46 on 1D, we all gathered round and watched the wonder that is the wild die's favor. I've seen other PC's in similar situations, where they've rolled 20 or more points on the wild die alone, it's even happened for me before. I've learned that nothing is impossible, just improbabable. But if the player doesn't want to roll, that's their choice, they chose to fail over rolling and hoping they "luck out". In games without a wild dice, that should be player perogative too. Some players feel powerless not getting to roll while others feel wasted time by rolling.

5: I would never tell a PC they can't do X unless there was something stopping them. We let PC's try to use any skill (we have our own house rule on skills, I'll put it below). The only exception to this is (A) skills. For your armor example, building armor would be (A) Armor Engineering, so no I wouldn't let him do that either. As for intimidate, any skill like that where the PC is interacting with the world through a skill we require the player to explain what the PC is doing, so we place modifiers on the roll. Han Solo running and screaming after the stormies on the death star was all skill. Leia using a TD in Jabba's palace had a nice modifier chunked on there for her. So if the PC had anything to scare the badie, let him try it. It's likely when the PC's are near the end of their ropes they might try something they never would have before getting there....like threaten to blow up an large area, or calapse the cave system...ect.

*HOUSE RULE FOR SKILLS* Each PC gets a number of skills equal to twice the attribute rating, round pips - +2 rounds up, +1 rounds down. These are the character's skills, if there is a special circumstance the GM approves it - like moving slots from one skill to another. Since all characters have 18D in att, they should have 36 skills approx, but the deviation should be small. Any skill a character does not "have" is still attempatable by rolling the attribute -1D. The 1D penalty is for not knowing the skill. So, a primative character, like an ewok, would have no high tech MEC or TEC skills, but could learn them latter. It helps ensure realism in that an ewok with a 3D+1 MEC can't just walk in and fly a starship...without lucky button mashing. It isn't perfect, but helpful. It makes PC's think about what their character knows so that when a GM looks at the sheet they see a better capsule of the character beyond where they put the 7D.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Vanion]

My VERY simplified answers...

1.: Yes. In nearly every PnP RPG book I have ever read, it almost always says that the GM should feel free to change or throw out any rule he chooses to.

2.: Yes. However, I would be very careful about this... only doing it with the BEST fairness and judgement!

3.: I usually do not tell the diff numbers even when asked. Sometime I do and it just depends mostly on my mood. Usually, I tell the players a diff number whenever it is a highly crucial roll.

4.: I don't think I understand this question. Why would they need one? Why would they ask for it? Seeing as how I usually don't tell the players diff numbers, though... they often roll attempts that they cannot succeed at, but they aren't aware of that fact.

5.: As far as I'm concerned, the GM is the ultimate authority. As the GM, if you feel that the character would/should not be preforming an action... then don't let him!
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"Life is not measured in years, but by deeds"

[garhkal]

Vanion. Some people run starwars without the wild die, as they hate seeing the PCs suffer from a 1. So they dont use it. BUT without it, there can be no openendedness in rolls. With that, there are times a pc just cannot roll above the target number, so in that instance would you still let him roll?

Endwyn. What about if the player is using HIS knowledge, not what his character knows to do an action? Will you still allow that?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Endwyn]

I would tell the player they seem to be using OOC info. If they provide the logic behind it, fine. If it's clear they have no motive outside OOC info, then no. In my experience there are two types of players that have trouble with OOC knowledge use, those that forgot / were mistaken about knowing it; and those that don't get the concept of OOC or just don't care that they use it. One only needs to be reminded, the other can ruin the game.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Vanion]

[Endwyn]

The above example with security is a great example. For something like that if the player misses the difficulty they could set off a sielent alarm, ect. For things like that I would never tell a player their target number, just the expected range if they would know. Someone with 5D security would know that a electric door lock like that uses a data relay that monitors the door, if the door isn't taken off line properly it could set off a sielent alarm...if that hooked up. He knows that to put the relay in a loop is very difficult and that the lock itself is moderate .....but any mistake could alert the base. Someone using the attribute code or rolling unskilled in my game would know where the pannel is and how to open it. After that, they can either roll or not.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[garhkal]

Good point endwyn...

Ok. What about the folowing situations for question 5.


1) Player has knowledge of architecture and engineering. CHARACTER has base level carpentry. He wishes his character to make a 'war wagon' that has colapsable sides with 'cushioning' for when they face giants trowing boulders. Would you allow him to do it (AD&D area)..

2) Player has read all the SW novels, and wishes his jedi character to learn the White currents force ways. In your game you have never even had a mention of them come up. Would he be able to know of them??
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Endwyn]

1. He could design it, but I doubt that it will work correctly if he builds it. (All about the carpentry roll baby.)

2. How high is his Jedi Lore? Decide who knows, the best jedi in the galaxy, the best jedi in a system, ect? Then use this chart:

Among best on planet: 8D
Among best in several systems: 9D
Among best in sector: 10D
Among best in region: 12D
Among best in galaxy: 14D+

So, if in your game only the best of the jedi in the galaxy know about the unique way, the character needs 14D+ in jedi lore to just pull it out of no where. Of course, if you introduce the concept, that's different; but also not your question.

What is that way with the force? Can you PM me so it doesn't hi-jack your thread?
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[garhkal]

Interesting. Lets say he has none. Or real low jedi lore 5d<
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Endwyn]

Well, how rare is the info? I don't know what this way of using the force you talk about is, I assume it would fall under Jedi Lore....but if I have misjudged it, another skill might also work. At 5D, his Jedi Lore skills would be "above average expertise" on the skill dice chart. How that racks up really depends on the timeframe, but it doesn't change the amount of info that covers.

I should clarify, that I would let the player roll if he wants to; but if I felt that a Jedi of around, say 10D+ would have a chance of knowing it, I would set the difficulty at around heroic +10 (10(dice)*3.5(avg roll)=35, round up.).

You have to decide where you want the difficulty. Perhaps best though, would be to tell the player when the two of you are off to the side that when he wants to take his character in a direction that is outside of what's currently open in the chronicle you'd like him to talk to you privately first. Then, in those meeting you could dicuss the character so it doesn't interupt the game or catch you by surprise and possibly prevent you from telling the story during your session. I assume that this force method is way out there.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.