Is knowledge too weak?

[gollummen]

Just wanted to add to the fun!

No, seriously, in my group people tend to have little knowledge, because it rarely affects the game directly and many of the knowledge skills are "soft" skills.
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All stats 2D, except: brawling parry: versus boxing 2D+2, melee combat: swords 3D, melee parry: swords 2D+2, languages: english 2D+1, scolar: history 3D, scolar: social studies 2D+1, brawling: boxing 2D+2, computer programming/repair 2D+1.

[garhkal]

[Ankhanu]

Yup, I've lost a character or two due to low Survival skills

When GMing I've also let players completely slip by crucial story elements because they didn't have the streetwise/business/cultural/whatever savvy to pick up on something.
In general though, yeah, it's not a make or break attribute.

[cheshire]

This is probably the place where I could stand to read a few adventures you guys have made up. Usually survival, languages, and alien species don't help my players. No one has ever used the Scholar skill.

[Ankhanu]

Languages can be pretty important when dealing with PCs and NPCs that don't speak Basic. For example in a recent game, I was playing a Chadra-Fan... of course no one knew Chadra-Fan and many Languages rolls were made through the game, more often than not, they had no idea what I was trying to tell them... which didn't always work in their favour, as I was the ship's tech.

[garhkal]

[Zarm R'keeg]

There are two kinds of players, methinks- you can look at them as RPG videogamers. There are those that will go explore every little signpost, talk to the minor NPCs, etc.- for deep games with little bits of the mythos sprinkled throughout (like letters that can be found that add detail to the universe and setting), they will find out everything they can. Then, there are the 'goal gamers'- they are there to WIN- to collect loot and XP, level up, take all comers, emerge triumphant. All that other stuff is just extraneous, useless stuff, because it doesn't practically contribute to accomplishing their goals.

These are the types that care nothing for knowledge- and for the most part, this just nets them no penalty except their own enrichment and depth of knowledge about new things- which is not really something they care about. Unfortunately, many players- mine included- are like this.

If you really want to encourage people to learn more skills, have them run into more beings that don't speak basic, get trapped in jungles with no ability to survive, have to overcome a ton of red tape and beuracracy to accomplish their goal, etc. so that their lack of knowledge actually becomes a handicap. Otherwise... yeah, it tends to be underutilized, but the only thing you can really do is bemoan the fact that they don't really want to learn more about the universe you've created, and move on.
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Hard core OT, all the way!

[Fallon Kell]

[garhkal]

And as someone who also has had it back fire; players threatened to leave as the DM (me) was seen as willfully trying to screw them over, i caution doing that too often.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[KageRyu]

While I have heard this topic and discussion many times, and often encounter the attitude that Knowledge skills are soft skills, and thereby unescessary, I have never quite agreed with it. In games I run, having some good knowledge skills is critical, as otherwise players will often miss valuable clues and information. Also, I use a lot of knowledge skills as baselines for determining other key skill uses in clever ways. A lot of how to apply Knowledge skills can be left to individual and group play style as well as the tastes, and certainly in a Combat heavy game, Knowledge skills may seem under-valued. Consider though:

Where do your players turn after a firefight with local imperial authorities, when several are badly wounded, and knowing that all medical facilities will report blaster wounds? Or where can the players find replacement power cells for that beloved Medium Repeater on it's gyro-mounting that they just love to lay down the law with against those Imps? WHo will they be able to by Data-spikes from to crack the security at the Imperial Data center and get the Imperials Battleplans for the Tirol sector? If only they had a few underworld contacts...if only they had a better Streetwise Die Code.

The Friendly Gand scientist that was asisting the players develop a new sensor kit for piercing themists has been Poisoned...does anyone know enoguth about Gand physiology to treat him? That Amanaman is dynamite with that Bibroblade, is there any weakness I can exploit, or anywhere I can hit him to drop him faster? If only I knew more about Alien Races...

Is that Bothan trying to flirt with me? Why is this dang aqualish always picking fights? I don't trust this Devoronian as he wont look me in the Eyes. Why does this Farghul have a perpetual Mad-on for my Jedi? All these alien cultures are confusing to me, I wish I had a higher Die Code.

Oh, do I recognize the type of data console taking up the chamber? What sort of technology exists for geological survey? How does hyperspace work? If only I had a better Die Code in the Technology skill (1st edition skill, but should never have been removed).

"No I don't have a landing permit. I'm trying to reach Lando Calrisian..." Wish I knew what forms to fill out to get a landing permit so they'd quit shooting at me! If only I had some dice in Bureacracy.

There are lots of ways to work Knowledge skills into a good plot, and still keep a game interesting. In fact, the mini-adventure I just ran for my new players was almost all Knowledge and Perception skills, with a few Mechanical and Technical thrown in, and so far the players are really enjoying it (of course I am just laying groundwork for the action to come).

I often thought there should be more skills under knowledge, and have created a whole slew of my own. If there's interest, I can share some of them. Also, if there's interest in some ideas on new and interesting ways to use skills, I can put more time into the descriptions and write it in to one of the revisions to my Skill Use guidebook that is always growing? Overall though, I'd say never underestimate any skill group, it's all in how you write up the adventures.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[ZzaphodD]

If Knowlegde is too weak, it depends on the GM and the types of games he runs... To each their own of course..
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[The Brain]

Knowledge weak?! Bite your tongue sir!
For example:
Where can we find some illegal weaponry? Streetwise

How much is this cargo hold of Gallowian glow worm silk we just "liberated" worth? Value

Whats the taboo we have to avoid so the locals won't slowly and painfully kill us? Cultures

Say where is an out of the way little known but comfortable planet where we can hide out from that bunch of angry crime lords, imperial inquisitors, and pirate gangs? Planetary systems

[garhkal]

Some of the oftne over looked facets are also.

When in a starport, how do we get our ship's launch bumpped up in the order, so we can get out of here faster without incurring a fine or worse a bounty - roll bureaucracy.

What is an acceptable bribe to give this customs inspector, or will he even accept one - bureaucracy

the group wants to take on these baddies, but want to know if as a private citizen on this imperial world, our taking them out gets ME into hot water - law enforcement

Hey, that wookie is intimidating me!!! - willpower.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Blue Glowie]

Knowledge becomes pretty powerful (and fun) if you let your players make up the facts themselves, instead of always querying the GM. Of course, the Difficulty for the roll should be based on how much the made-up fact benefits the player.

This method doesn't work for every skill listed under Knowledge, but my group has had a lot of fun using it with skills like Bureaucracy, Alien Species, Planetary Systems, Cultures...

[Bren]