Enhance attrib on Str? Give DSP or not?

[garhkal]

OK. So the book says that using the force directly for attacking gives DSPs. Now would using the Enhance attribute force power on your Str so your punches do more damage be a 'direct attack' to where the DSP comes in or not?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Bobmalooga]

The way I usually rule on that comes from the line in the Jedi code where it talks about using the force to defend others. If you're using the power as a defense of others, rather than just trying to save your own skin, then no you won't get a DSP. On the other hand if you start some business in a bar and are using it to KO someone then yes, you should get one for knowing better.

I feel the same way about using TK like that, TK Push is just a manipulation of the power, rather than a separate power unto itself.

Keith
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No matter where you go, there you are...

[Fallon Kell]

[cheshire]

I would say that isn't a "direct enough" influence on damage for it to be considered Dark Side, though that's just a general first impression. I'll come up with a post hoc rationalization for it later if you want.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Bren]

[garhkal]

I have yet to see a rule book where brawl was NOT lethal.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[ZzaphodD]

[Bren]

Adding DEX doesn't increase Brawling attack, only parry. So clearly no DSP there.

And for melee combat adding DEX is perhaps not as far down the slippery slope as adding to STR. Though both DEX and STR adds aren't much different than LSC really. And it's kind of hard to play a warrior monk type of character if you can't ever use any Powers to attack anyone or to assist in attacking anyone.

I think that is the dividing line the WEG designers had in mind.

Use the Force to attack, i.e. use an offensive Force power = DSP.

Use the Force to enhance an otherwise mundane attack i.e. swing a lightsaber = NO DSP.

[mcbobbo]

[Bren]

[mcbobbo]

[Naaman]

I would say that the situation the OP describes is not inherantly evil, and therefor does not warrant a DSP.

[vanir]

I use a conscious physics for the Force as if it actually existed, rather than a philosophical judgement of a belief system, which will always vary.

let's play science with it: let's assume a then b.

let's assume the Force is a real thing, like an EM field. We'll make it analoguous to an EM field.
Some EM passes a gravitational body, gets bent.
A Jedi notices and mentions the rule, O ye all do not pass the body of the moon without calculating lensing as per relativistic means or else nobody knows where ye be going to get back to the source.

Now if someone turns around, fails to understand the Rule and argues it's something a little different, it's still not going to change the rule because it works by a physical mechanic. If you use Newtonian math you'll wind up with the wrong values even if you thought that's what it said to do.

Let's assume the Force is just a philosophy, people create the results by magic.
Well if you misinterpret a fundamental you still get the same result because the intention was the same. It all comes down to moral issues and philosophy, which vary to the same ends. Following what you sincerely believe is the Rule will always get the desired results so long as general consensus agrees with you.


So you need a mechanic you use for how the Force works imho, and it can't be moral, it has to be a physical mechanic, like QM or chemistry.

The one I'm using is the Force analoguous to a Jungian lifeforce, a collective of individual parts connected by whatever fictional neurology of invisible circuits.
Dark side powers rely on anger, fear, hatred and you get DSP using the Force for attack, it should only be used for knowledge and defence.

This to me forms the reason for inventing lightsabres for combat, a Jedi trait. You can use the Force to enhance combat ability via proxy safely.
It is when you "put your Force directly into another being for harm or fear" that you get DSP, I think of it as a kind of "spiritual rape" where you're putting your life essence directly into another person's body against their will.

Thus extrapolating the Force isn't moral but mechanical. Being moral is what the Jedi do to use it safely.


Brings up the issue of "how can Yoda use telekinesis at Palpy without DSP and Palpy uses Force Lightning for DSP"

My rule is telekinetic use if carefully governed by a skilled Jedi, don't necessarily bodily invade the other party. At the same time they do not crush or pummel him unduly either. It is more like cradling the personal space around him and tossing that.

Palpy is connecting directly with another being to form Force Lightning, being extremely invasive bodily (in terms of QM) against the will of a sentient. The circuitry created is through hatred and self loathing and homicidal desires and did you know that in criminology studies, all the major serial killers left behind semen at the scenes. Icky I know but just relating the level of that kind of biological violence we're dealing with, when you're talking about a genuine biblical kind of sociopath.

I don't think Yoda would even advise Jedi to use telekinesis during combat, he would tell them to use enhance attribute, or better still a lightsabre.
Use a proxy to use the Force in combat. Never use the Force (directly) for attack.

All coming down to a mechanical system, not so much morality.
The only alternative is that the Force doesn't exist in game. It is a magic system, Force users are deities and they don't know they're doing it. That's the only way it comes down to moral arguments or philosophical rulesets and the problem with that is if Palpy really believes he's right, he doesn't get DSP for anything.

[Downstrike]

okay, getting DPed
Evil
killing helpless innocent
causing unnecessary, gratuitous injury
killing except in self defense
being mad while using the force

Unheroic
lies and deception for personal gain
avoiding non heroic danger
non heroics saving of self
using FP for weath/ personal gain

Heroic
exposure to danger for some good
sacrifice to help others
big risk to fight the empire and other jerks
fighting evil

Heroic with Drama
doing something heroic that moves the story along

thats pg 84-84 of revised 2ed [with my own twist]

So wait? Why is someone getting punched in the face? Do they have it coming? Is the character being a jerk?

Always more questions....Cheers
DS

[vanir]

Well you see here's the thing with the morality rating system.

What if they do have it coming, but when I punch them in the face I like it, I mean really get off on it.

DSP?