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fon-q
Cadet
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: Improving Skills |
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Hi,
I have a question. If you train ( doesn/t matter what) a skill do You spend all day for training or maybe about 8 hours (from standard 25 hours day) and in the rest of the day you could do something? And here is the second: Could You train a skill during starship travel or your's traing cannot be interrupted or paused?
Does anybody think about it or maybe there is some rule or home rule for this?
regards,
Luke |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Improving Skills |
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| fon-q wrote: | Hi,
I have a question. If you train ( doesn/t matter what) a skill do You spend all day for training or maybe about 8 hours (from standard 25 hours day) and in the rest of the day you could do something? And here is the second: Could You train a skill during starship travel or your's traing cannot be interrupted or paused?
Does anybody think about it or maybe there is some rule or home rule for this?
regards,
Luke |
I don't recall that the RAW provides this level of detail - and I don't have my copy handy. Regardless, I would assume that training does not take the entire day so you could do something else during the day. I would assume that there is a limit to how many hours per day one could productively train - so you probably cannot do 2 days worth of training in a single day though you could spend 1/2 the day training one skill and 1/2 the day training a second skill. I would assume you can interrupt or pause your training and that training on board ship while in hyperspace is what many characters do. We see Luke being trained onboard the Falcon by Obi-Wan in ANH. |
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I've always fudged this a little bit by allowing my players to improve their skills during "Down time." "Down Time" being any time where there is more than a day of "Free Time" in the game. This is usually in the form of travel time, but can include any time where the characters are relatively idle for an extended period. |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I just removed the training requirement, exept for force skills.
To much bother IMO.
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S-Foil
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Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't really allow players to advance skills while adventuring. I would consider a training day a dedicated chunk of time spent studying and practicing for a skill. I don't like the idea of players deciding to increase a skill by a pip in the middle of an adventure (unless they had some downtime in the adventure). When they're on the run from Stormtroopers they're not going to plop down and read about the finer points of Command: Rebel Operatives on their datapad. |
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Guardian_A
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Location: South Dakota, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| S-Foil wrote: | | I don't really allow players to advance skills while adventuring. I would consider a training day a dedicated chunk of time spent studying and practicing for a skill. I don't like the idea of players deciding to increase a skill by a pip in the middle of an adventure (unless they had some downtime in the adventure). |
I always figure that if the characters have down time, they should be allowed the oppertunity to improve themselves in some way. We do however keep track of what has been bought and do NOT allow more than a single pip improvement to any single skill during an adventure.
| S-Foil wrote: | | When they're on the run from Stormtroopers they're not going to plop down and read about the finer points of Command: Rebel Operatives on their datapad. |
To me, it's more a case of the character spending time with those troops to gain their trust, running training expercises, and learn their strengths & weaknesses so you can make better use of those troops when the time comes to Command them. |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | I just removed the training requirement, exept for force skills.
To much bother IMO. |
Generally we increase skills that have been important in the recent adventure. We pretty much ignore requirements for training except to possibly provide a bit of narrative or explanation about what happens between adventures. It's not like skills are zooming up so fast that time (rather than CPs) needs to be the real limiting factor.
For Force skills we ignore the training times but use the extra CP cost for untrained learning. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | I just removed the training requirement, exept for force skills.
To much bother IMO. |
Generally we increase skills that have been important in the recent adventure. We pretty much ignore requirements for training except to possibly provide a bit of narrative or explanation about what happens between adventures. It's not like skills are zooming up so fast that time (rather than CPs) needs to be the real limiting factor.
For Force skills we ignore the training times but use the extra CP cost for untrained learning. |
When we want 'serious' games, we play WFRP. When we just want to have a fun, rules-light game, we play SW D6. Players get their CPs and are free to do whatever they like with them, whenever they like. Increasing skills that is, we dont use CPs for rolling extra dice... We even allow increasing skills 'on the spot' just before you roll.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have always enforced training for
A) learning a new skill
B) increasing a skill you did NOT actively use last adventure
C) learning an advanced skill
D) Increasing an advanced skill
E) increasing a force skill
F) learning a new force power.
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty lax on training. I don't require it unless it's the type of thing I don't think you could learn in the real world. For example, My player doesn't have the grenade skill. Do I think he needs to make a pilgrimage to the ancient master of pineapple-style frag kung fu to learn to throw a grenade? No. He can practice by throwing rocks or wrenches or something like that. If he wants to become a mentalist and study hypnotism, then yeah, he'll need a teacher.
For advanced skills, I require at least some serious book-learnin'.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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would you require he take a class in dodgeball to learn dodge??
"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge anything"~
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I have come across in the EU is the occasional moment of revelation or sudden insight. Perhaps some of you have experienced this for yourself, that sudden "ah-HA! Now I get it!"
In game terms, I'm thinking something like this: Whenever a character spends a CP, roll that D separately. If the character rolls a 6 on a Wild Dice and the extra D from the CP, they receive an immediate and permanent +1 pip increase to the skill they spent the CP on. In real life terms, the character had a sudden moment of insight that subtly improves their ability with that skill.
Granted, I don't have the ability to play test it at the moment, but it seems as though it could be a fun addition to a game...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:49 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say permanent, but i might be agreeable to a +1 pip upgrade for the rest of the game session.. Or half off the cost of improving it.
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I definitely think that training for skills shouldn't be dismissed...but I do think some modifications to the RAW on the subject are in order. The RAW states:
| Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game - Second Edition, Revised & Expanded wrote: | | When training, a character must concentrate on improving the skill. A character cannot train in more than one skill at a time, nor can a character train while off adventuring. Only through dedicated study and practice can a character train to improve a skill. |
Let's tackle "A character cannot train in more than one skill at a time..." first. If you look at military basic training regimens, they teach a number of skills at once. Not ALL at once, but a handful. So, provided they have enough time in a given day, characters should be able to train more than one skill at a time. If you had to assign a solid number to it, I'd say 1-4 hours per skill should be plenty of training time per day. I wouldn't allow characters to do 12 hours of training on one skill a day to kill three days of training time, though, and I'd probably limit characters to training no more than 3 skills at a given time (and that would probably take up the entire day). There is a limit to how much you can take ON in one day, just as there is a limit to how much you can take IN before you start to experience a diminishing return on your efforts.
Next up is "...nor can a character train while off adventuring.". If a character has a free hour or two that day and they want to practice their shooting skills, what's keeping them from doing so? Luke practices with the lightsaber in the middle of an adventure to begin training; the physical act of traveling through hyperspace isn't what enables a character to train...it's the hours of down time they have. I have a character in a game right now with a Strength of 2D+1; he's working out every morning until the training time (as calculated without a teacher) is fulfilled, at which time he'll spend the CP and go up to 2D+2. This seems both realistic and fair to me.
| Fallon Kell wrote: | I'm pretty lax on training. I don't require it unless it's the type of thing I don't think you could learn in the real world. For example, My player doesn't have the grenade skill. Do I think he needs to make a pilgrimage to the ancient master of pineapple-style frag kung fu to learn to throw a grenade? No. He can practice by throwing rocks or wrenches or something like that. If he wants to become a mentalist and study hypnotism, then yeah, he'll need a teacher.
For advanced skills, I require at least some serious book-learnin'. |
Training doesn't necessarily mean going to a special training institution dedicated to the skill. Your method of practicing by throwing rocks is still "training", by the RAW's definition:
| Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game - Second Edition, Revised & Expanded wrote: | Training Time. If the character used a skill or specialization in the last adventure, there is no "training time" requirement. The character can just spend the Character Points and the skill improves one pip.
If the character didn't use the skill or specialization in the last adventure, the character must spend time training. If the character has a "teacher" (see below), the training time is one day for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. If the character doesn't have a teacher and is training on his own, the training time is two days for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. |
Now, if he wanted to cut down on his training time, I imagine there are plenty of mercenary trainers in the Star Wars universe that would be happy to give someone a few courses on grenade-tossing, shooting, or demolitions if the money was right...
As far as improving the Dodge skill...I can safely say that I've never known of a character that didn't have to use Dodge in the previous adventure.  But if I did...I'd let them play dodgeball (or dodgewrench) as training.
| crmcneill wrote: | One thing I have come across in the EU is the occasional moment of revelation or sudden insight. Perhaps some of you have experienced this for yourself, that sudden "ah-HA! Now I get it!"
In game terms, I'm thinking something like this: Whenever a character spends a CP, roll that D separately. If the character rolls a 6 on the Wild Die and the extra D from the CP, they receive an immediate and permanent +1 pip increase to the skill they spent the CP on. In real life terms, the character had a sudden moment of insight that subtly improves their ability with that skill.
Granted, I don't have the ability to playtest it at the moment, but it seems as though it could be a fun addition to a game... |
I like this! The combination of sixes on both the CP die and the Wild Die means that it won't happen too often, but I like having a representation of that "Aha!" moment in the middle of an adventure.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I can agree with matthias's first part in that you can learn more than 1 skill/train more than one at a time.
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