| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
MacRauri
Ensign
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Twin Cities MN
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Guardian_A wrote: |
Taking Specialties in Languages allows a player to recognize and make use of different dialects of the language in question. |
This is a really cool idea.
I haven't had the problem of KNOW being the dump-attribute in our games as we tend to have lots of language, culture and alien species checks. Our weakness comes more in MECH, but that's because as a gaming group we decided we liked swinging on chandeliers and jumping off the sides of buildings while in a blaster fight. Space combat was only fun if everyone had a turret. We've gotten better at not omitting it completely though as you can do sensor and communication checks. Plus there's always the obligatory get-away vehicle.
I think the perception of dump-attributes is largely a function of what kind of adventures your groups enjoy having. (Bren and Fallon already made this point--late to the table) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MacRauri wrote: | | I think the perception of dump-attributes is largely a function of what kind of adventures your groups enjoy having. (Bren and Fallon already made this point--late to the table) |
I completely agree. I feel that its up to the GM to create situations where a wide range of a PCs skills can be put to use. I try to put together gaming sessions where there will be at least one important social situation, this gives my players a chance to use many of their Knowledge and Perception skills.
The saying goes: "If all you have is a Hammer, all your problems start to look like Nails." If all you do is throw combat situations at a group of players, Knowledge and Perception are both going to start looking pretty useless.
A couple of examples of how to make use of Knowledge & Perception skills:
-Make them bargain with a merchant for the items they are looking for.
-Put them in a position to negotiate peace between two waring factions.
-Send them on a scavanger hunt where they need to talk with different people for clues.
-Allow players to glean information about a situation by making Alien Species, Culture, Languages, Streetwise, Con, Persuasion, or Search checks. (The skill in question would depend largely on the situation.)
-Have an NPC ask the players with help with something in exchange for what they are looking for. (Find information or fix something in exchange for information or goods.)
Take a little time to think of how you can make use of different skills, you'll be surprised at how many neat ways they can be put to use! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have yet to ever see Per as a dump stat.. Especially when sneak and search are so integral to combat (ambushes!) and Per itself dictates initiative.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MacRauri
Ensign
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Twin Cities MN
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah, and even if your PCs like talking everyone's ear off Perc has persuasion, con, bargain. It's never a dump-stat and I know many players who would rather have max Perc than any other attribute. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And as some pc's found out at the convention i was at over new years, bargaining is a bi--h when your rolls suck!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Guardian_A wrote: | | Azai wrote: | Basically every 1D you have in language you can learn a new language. Which is added to their character sheet.
So if I had 4D in Language I could have four languages beyond my native.
Which could look like :Basic, Binary, Huttese, Ryl. Meaning I can read, speak, and understand all these languages. |
Thats pretty similar to what I do. I give them one language for each 1D in Languages, but I also players to use their Languages skill to identify languages, even if they cant speak, write, or read it well enough to make use of the language in question.
Taking Specialties in Languages allows a player to recognize and make use of different dialects of the language in question. |
One language per D in languages is a nice rule to limit languages - though it doesn't really let you manage C-3PO's 6 million forms of communication. I tend to allow the language skill to allow limited understanding and communication, but a die roll is required. Specializations are taken for working on real fluency in a language. So a character with a specialization in a language of at least 4D doesn't have to roll. They just understand and can speak. If they are at 5D or better they can sound like a native.
So a character might look like this:
Alame
KNO 2D+1
Languages 4D+1, (s) Hutteese 4D+2, (s) Sallustan 5D+1
Alame is good with languages being able to roll 4D+1 to understand or make herself understood in most common galactic languages. She is fluent in Hutteese and does not need to roll to speak or understand Hutteese. She is very fluent in Sallustan speaking it as good as a native.
Bren
KNO 2D
Languages 2D, (s) Meristean 4D, (s) Coynite 5D
Bren is not particularly good with foreign languages in general rolling 2D to understand or make himself understood in most common galactic languages, but after much practice, he is fluent in Meristean (no roll required) and speaks Coynite with native fluency.
Each specialization is paid for separately so Alame raised her language skill 2D above base (and assuming that occurred first) she then paid 2 CPs to learn a specialization in Hutteese to 4D+2 and 2+2+3+3= 10 CPs to learn Sallustan to 5D+1 while Bren would have paid 1+1+1+2+2+2= 9CPs to learn Meristean to 4D and 1+1+1+2+2+2+2+2+2= 15 CPs to learn Coynite to 5D.
I do like the idea of giving the characters their language dice in language specializations at base for free though. I may have to adopt that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've had no issues running languages by the RAW.. 10 top end difficult (20) rolls can get you fluency, or 5d spec for that language..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MacRauri
Ensign
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Twin Cities MN
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| has anyone created house rules to differentiate between fluent and flawless? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't think "flawless" is even possible. There a native speakers of languages that can't properly articulate when they speak. They are fluent, by all means, but even language professors make mistakes and fall outside of the definition of flawless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MacRauri wrote: | | has anyone created house rules to differentiate between fluent and flawless? |
I'm not sure what you mean by flawless as opposed to fluent. By "flawless" do you mean speaking like a native with proper accent and such or do you mean something different? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lancil
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 74
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think fluent would be able to hold a conversation and flawless could hold a serious debat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lancil wrote: | | I think fluent would be able to hold a conversation and flawless could hold a serious debat. |
I'm still not grasping what is meant by flawless. I see the quality of the debate governed by the Persuasion skill (and what the player thinks to say) not Language ability. While the ability to fluently translate or present the arguments in a foreign language would be governed by the Language skill (including any relevant specialization). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is some truth to the dump stat being a function of adventure style thing, but the adventure style is also somewhat influenced by the setting. The game does try to promote the high action space opera style of the films, and that in turn affects what characters will be doing.
In my own cmapign I had an adventure where the Pcs were working to build a resistance group on an occupied planet. Part of the difficulty was that, if he Pcs did well, they would avoid fights and most of the action one associates with Star Wars. Yet if they got discovered, it pretty much blew the adventure, since the opposition had kept the planet a secret. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | | There is some truth to the dump stat being a function of adventure style thing... |
Yes and our low KNO PCs have bosses who are perceptive enough to that have figured out that we are a bunch of adreneline junkie, trouble magnets who tend to cause a lot of explosions and other fireworks where ever they go. So they don't generally send us on something where a sober, scholarly approach or a lot of subtlety is required. So we get away - to some extent - with not having good general knowledge or lots of KNO skills. But equally, our players are pretty comfortable with their characters making decisions that are in-character appropriate for someone who doesn't know stuff even though OOC we may know that getting in between the angry Wookiee that you cannot understand and the being she is angry at is not a safe or even a wise choice.
| Quote: | | In my own cmapign I had an adventure where the Pcs were working to build a resistance group on an occupied planet. Part of the difficulty was that, if he Pcs did well, they would avoid fights and most of the action one associates with Star Wars. Yet if they got discovered, it pretty much blew the adventure, since the opposition had kept the planet a secret. |
I think that sort of campaign either calls for a less space opera and more WWII Resistance fighter approach or a relaxation of the assumptions on how low a profile is really required. For the latter, as long as the resistance fighters can keep the affection and good will of the people then they can continue to disappear into the general population after a raid. They will then (most likely) be safe from discovery and the Imperials will most likely further oppress the entire population even more which will generate more resistance. This will continue the cycle of resistance --> oppression --> resistance until one of several things happens.
(1) The bulk of the local population comes to participate in the Resistance (this is what we see with the Mon Calamari and, to an extent, the Bothans). Which may result in general strikes, passive reistance, or even open war with the Empire.
(2) The oppression causes support for the Resistance to erode and the PCs group is betrayed to the oppressors.
(3) The Empire puts the entire population into detention camps or enacts a Trail of Tears like solution by forced migration of the planetary population.
(4) The Empire eliminates the population of the planet or enacts a planet-wide sterilization or Base-Delta-Zero.
Having a group that has to aim for (1) while avoiding or fending off (2) - (4) could be very interesting. One could even set up some Imperial politics with different high level Imperials favoring working for choice (2) vs. (3) or (4). It helps if there are some resource, political, or other reasons that make (4) and/or (3) unpalatable or difficult for the Imperials. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | There is some truth to the dump stat being a function of adventure style thing, but the adventure style is also somewhat influenced by the setting. The game does try to promote the high action space opera style of the films, and that in turn affects what characters will be doing.
In my own cmapign I had an adventure where the Pcs were working to build a resistance group on an occupied planet. Part of the difficulty was that, if he Pcs did well, they would avoid fights and most of the action one associates with Star Wars. Yet if they got discovered, it pretty much blew the adventure, since the opposition had kept the planet a secret. |
True dat.. i have actually participated in a group where Mech/Tech (minus blaster repair and first aid) were the dump attributes cause he lacked any space combat..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
