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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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 Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject: "Off-Road" Modifications in Star Wars |
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This is something that has been bouncing around in my head for a while, but I haven't really put pen to paper (as it were) until now. In the modern world, it is common for truck owners to make modifications to their vehicles so that they perform better in difficult terrain. SW D6 has no equivalent rules for such vehicle modification. So what would be appropriate? Off the top of my head, I would think an appropriate trade would be to trade Speed digits in for either dice or a difficulty modifier applied against the terrain modifier. The result would be a vehicle that is not as fast as its "stock" counterpart, but is more capable than "stock" when traversing more difficult types of terrain.
A rule like this wouldn't necessarily be limited strictly to ground vehicles, as spacecraft might also benefit from drive systems specifically tailored to their environments (such as an asteroid miner with a boosted repulsorlift system that helps deflect nearby asteroids (in that the repulsorlift system actually forces the mining vehicle away from the danger).
The only tech example that comes to mind in the EU is in the first Wraith Squadron book, where Wedge Antilles races Fallon Sandskimmer with bulk ore haulers. Each hauler is described as having repulsorfields that extend a meter or more beyond the edges of the craft itself, making the vehicle much more capable and stable in rough terrain, but also harder to control (IIRC).
I might have more detailed ideas, but I'm sick and exhausted from my new job, so my brain isn't really working at the moment. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I like the idea, but don't have any idea how to quantify it's effects.
I'll sleep on it and see if anything rattles loose in the morning...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:58 am Post subject: |
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I could see mods just affecting the man dice..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I could see mods just affecting the man dice.. |
But that's the thing. If the mods paralleled current methods of upgrading vehicles for greater off-road utility, the vehicles would actually be less maneuverable (higher center of gravity, etc). Vehicles modified for racing or similar performance would tend to be even less capable of surmounting higher terrain modifiers than their stock counterparts, despite the fact that they are more maneuverable.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | If the mods paralleled current methods of upgrading vehicles for greater off-road utility, the vehicles would actually be less maneuverable (higher center of gravity, etc). |
I'm not sure the mods for repulsorlifts and spacecraft should parallel mods to wheeled vehicles. It might be better to look into bush pilot aircraft, or just go purely theoretical.
I would allow a captain to make mods that would trade speed points for Maneuberability score, possibly increasing the maintenance costs or the rate at which consumables are used.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | If the mods paralleled current methods of upgrading vehicles for greater off-road utility, the vehicles would actually be less maneuverable (higher center of gravity, etc). |
I'm not sure the mods for repulsorlifts and spacecraft should parallel mods to wheeled vehicles. It might be better to look into bush pilot aircraft, or just go purely theoretical. |
The only known example in the EU (the mining haulers in Wraith Squadron) follow the premise, though, in that their wider repulsorlift footprint allows them to better handle rough terrain, but also makes them harder to handle. Performance modifications are tailored to the kind of terrain a vehicle is designed to operate in. A car with racing suspension is designed to operate no more than an inch or two off of a flat, solid surface, while a car with off-road suspension is designed for maximum clearance of obstacles, and for greater suspension travel to absorb damage when traveling at speed over rough ground. Both perform very well in the environment for which they are designed, but both would fail miserably if forced to compete in the other vehicle's terrain. Maneuverability is a uniform number works fine from a gaming simplicity standpoint, but it is not realistic.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: |
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The closest thing I can think of to terrain, in spaceflight, is atmospheres or Nebulae. A racer would probably perform better in an asteroid field than a stock ship would, with it's powerful acceleration and fast RCS.
I think the extended repulsor field is either A) bogus tech just made up by an author who was not concerned about anything more than a quick excuse -or- B) actually more of a shield or buffer to keep distance between asteroids and the ship, kind of like the main deflector arrays in star trek.
Either way, I don't see a reason a racer wouldn't be able to mount one of those fields. Ground clearance and the like are simply not a factor for spacecraft until they've landed.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I think the extended repulsor field is either A) bogus tech just made up by an author who was not concerned about anything more than a quick excuse -or- B) actually more of a shield or buffer to keep distance between asteroids and the ship, kind of like the main deflector arrays in star trek. |
Don't judge before you've read the passage; it was actually well thought out. The idea was that the repulsorlift fields on the mining haulers extended a meter or more to the front, rear and sides of the vehicle, allowing it to begin lifting to clear obstacles in rough terrain before the vehicle had actually reached the obstacle. The trade-off was that the higher the vehicle lifted off the ground, the more thrust it lost, so that clearing rough terrain also reduced the speed. The idea of having environment specific drive/maneuvering systems for spacecraft (such as asteroid field specific modifications) was my speculation.
| Quote: | | Either way, I don't see a reason a racer wouldn't be able to mount one of those fields. Ground clearance and the like are simply not a factor for spacecraft until they've landed. |
Aside from the issues of maneuvering systems being tailored to the environment in question that I mentioned in my previous post, I don't like this idea for rules reasons. Installing a system like this on a racer with high maneuverability would give it the best of both worlds, in that not only would the craft itself be highly maneuverable, it would also be able to reduce or ignore terrain modifiers. A balanced and fair rule requires some sort of performance trade-off.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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As a suggestion. rather than adding extra "terrain" die, how about you just lower the default difficulty for a given terrain?
So a vehicle that has an "all-terrain" mod, might reduce the terrain diffcilty by one level.That way, the vehicle doesn't become any more maneuverable (in fact you could even sell off some of it Maneuver dice), but it will become better able to cope with difficult terrain.
Now you can have slow moving, asteroid mining ships that steer like a brick, but are able to successfully navigate an asteroid field. Or a tracked tank with 0D Maneuverability that can still cross broken ground better than a sportscar. |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Don't judge before you've read the passage; it was actually well thought out. |
Well, I have read it, but it's been ages. I thought we were talking about starships, and most of the content of my posts were from that perspective.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe you engage the special repulsor field, and when you do the top speed is reduced.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | As a suggestion. rather than adding extra "terrain" die, how about you just lower the default difficulty for a given terrain?
So a vehicle that has an "all-terrain" mod, might reduce the terrain diffcilty by one level.That way, the vehicle doesn't become any more maneuverable (in fact you could even sell off some of it Maneuver dice), but it will become better able to cope with difficult terrain.
Now you can have slow moving, asteroid mining ships that steer like a brick, but are able to successfully navigate an asteroid field. Or a tracked tank with 0D Maneuverability that can still cross broken ground better than a sportscar. |
Exactly what I was thinking. Another good idea would be baseline "terrain modifiers", reflecting how certain types of vehicle may be better suited to crossing broken terrain than others. Walkers, for example, with their All-Terrain designation, might have one or two additional terrain modifier steps above and beyond other "off-road" vehicles. This modifier would better reflect the utility of walkers, off-setting their low speed values.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Maybe you engage the special repulsor field, and when you do the top speed is reduced. |
That would be a good one, which would make repulsorlifts an ideal vehicle for all-terrain use, in that they can switch from one mode to another, depending on the conditions.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Suggestion.
Repulsorlift modification
Speed damper.
This device limits the top speed (flank) and full speed (double) of a craft by 25%, but when engaged pushes the repulsor field out further than normal, thereby reducing the terrain difficulties by one category.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I like it. A simpler rule might be to make it so that, when the field is engaged, the vehicle can't move at All-Out.
What would the cost be for something like this?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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