Clarification of Keeping Up Powers/Lightsabre Combat needed.

[Cowboy Hat]

I could do with some clarification on force powers to see if I am going to house rule something (which seems more and more often, despite wanting to stay as near RAW as possible).

my player is a jedi with sense 2D and control 2D

she wishes to activate lightsabre combat and keep it up.

She decides to do it over two combat rounds to not take a -1 on activating it.

I'm going to suppose she's hiding somewhere during the first round and not getting attacked, or even being useful as to not take a further penalty.

She successfully makes the roll and keeps it up.

Yet acting in the second round she is already at -1D to any other action she takes.

-1D for keeping a power up and for the control roll of her lightsabre combat.

Now she decides to attack in this second round as well so is at -2D for the attack - which means she's not actually adding her 2D sense to her lightsabre combat because the dice penalty mitigates it.

With the way that reaction skills are written she could then take a reaction dodge later at -3D (even though her combat was at -2D)

(I'm planning on declaring as many actions as you're going to take, no more - i.e you can only reaction dodge if you have enough actions left to do it - which would mean if she was planning a dodge later all actions would have been at -3D anyway - but my house rule my problem right? - good reason for keeping the somewhat broken reaction skills in I guess).

Say that's the end of the first round.

Next round she is at -1D for keeping the power up to start with.

She wants to attack one nasty fella with her lightsabre.

This would put her again at -1D as that's concentration action and attacking.

Using reaction skills later she can parry a blaster at -2D and then try and control it back at -3D.

(making me now feel I have to use the reaction skills as written as she couldn't afford to take -3D to all actions as per my house rule to try and fix reaction skills).

However, RAW still has her at -3D by this point and that seems pretty harsh considering that she has 2D in both her sense and control skills, hasn't done that much and isn't a starting jedi.

If we took the same example with a starting jedi who can have lightsabre combat at character gen with his 1D in both sense and control - would he even be able to use it?

With these two examples, if they are indeed correct, what would a jedi need in sense and control to start being effective with this power (and the force in general)?

(I was thinking with my house rule for reaction dodges that I might change the keeping up at -1D to you are allowed to keep up x amount of powers only).

Going back to the first example, would the 2D sense/control jedi even be able to use lightsabre combat in one round or would the dice penalty be -1D to activate + -1D to keep it up, + -1D to attack/block/parry?

Also is there a MAP on each blaster deflection you do or does it work like dodging. If it works like dodging is there a MAP to each control roll you wish to deflect back or is one enough for the round? (I think it's for every one but...)

Am I looking at this right or am I misunderstanding it?
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"The Force will be with you. Sometimes."

[Bren]

According to the RAW the MAPs apply for each skill in use. So since lightsaber combat is two skills (Control & Sense) once the power is up, attacking with LS Combat active is three actions so a MAP of -2D. A reaction parry taken after the attack would be a fourth action so a MAP of -3D.

As you can see having Control and Sense of 2D or less it doesn't make much sense to activate LS Combat. You need about Control 3D and Sense 3D to make activation worthwhile. It then becomes more and more powerful/valuable to activate as Control increases; for example, a powerful Jedi (say in the 7D range) gains a bonus to attack and parry of 5D and an increase to damage of 5D.

Thus you will see on the site a lot of house rules. Either to help beginning Jedi or to limit powerful Jedi.

Many folks treat the 1 power as a single action for figuring MAPs.

My house rule basically halves the bonuses but ignores the MAPs penalty. Which both benefits low level Jedi and weakens advanced Jedi.

[garhkal]

[Cowboy Hat]

thanks for clearing that up
_________________
"The Force will be with you. Sometimes."

[Cowboy Hat]

thanks for clearing that up
_________________
"The Force will be with you. Sometimes."

[vanir]

RAW contradicts itself:

[Bren]

[garhkal]

Here is the RAW.. Page 142, revised rule book..
This Power May Be Kept "Up." Jedi may keep some
powers "up" — operating constantly without having to
make new Force skill rolls every round.
If the power can be kept "up," the power description
will state this; otherwise the power drops at the
end of the round in which it was activated.
If a player wishes to keep a power "up," it must be
announced when the power is activated. If the power
roll is successful, the power operates continuously
until the character drops the power.
If a character is stunned, wounded or worse, all
"up" powers are automatically dropped.
A character who is keeping a power "up" is using
the power's Force skills as long as the power is operating,
and loses die codes as if taking actions.
Example: Resist stun, a control power, maybe
kept "up." The power is activated if the Jedi rolls
the sense difficulty. The Jedi may keep the power
"up," but loses -ID to all other actions.
Light saber combat is a control and sense power
and may be kept up. The Jedi may keep the
power up, but loses -2D to all other actions
because light saber combat requires two Force
skills.

It says practically the same thing page 147, 2nd ed blue cover rule book.. Just without the example..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[vanir]

[garhkal]

I quoted the page and specific of the rule Van.. unless specified in the power (such as combat mind saying it stays up for 10 rounds, or enhance attribute which is based on what you get) all other "remain up powers" must be decided on if they are to stay up or not.. and they drop if you take a stun or worse.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Bren]

[Quan]

I have a question regarding the lightsaber combat power and the multiple action penalty, too.

Why is the multiple action penalty substracted from the lighsaber combat bonus dice?

The wording of the power doesn't say so and the example on page 148 makes no sense. If the penalty of -2D is substracted from the bonus dice, then the final number of dice should be 4D+2 (-2D on the bonus dice and -2D on the lightsaber skill roll) and not 6D+2.

If the bonus dice are really reduced by the multiple action penalty, then a Jedi would need at least 5D in Sense to make any use of the power. -.-

[garhkal]

Some sources seem to look at it that the -2d apply to both the LS skill AND the bonus D from Sense, while others combine them into one "Pool" that you then take the penalty from. IMO its more in following with the RAW that both get hit, while the example listed n the book seem to favor the latter.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[tetsuoh]

Okay - we ran across a new dilema - is it feasible to insinuate that you add your lightsaber die to the control roll to ridirect?

AND - would it be overpowering if not to allow the control roll to not be affect by MAP's???

he have a player contesting that otherwise its exceedingly difficult for lower level force users to redirect. not really to deflect but to redirect.

[nuclearwookiee]