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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: Sublight vs. Atmospheric Drive |
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Just had an idle thought. What happens if a starship uses its sublight drive while still in atmosphere? IIRC, it has been mentioned once or twice in the EU, and it certainly brings to mind the final scenes of the pilot episode of Firefly. Ideally, I'd like some idea of a good baseline for increased difficulty, so that a skilled pilot could pull this off, but not just anyone fresh from pilot training.
EDIT: Also for the kinds of atmospheric effects that might occur to other nearby vessels when this happens...
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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It probably depends on what kind of drive. I can't imagine ion engines performing much differently in atmosphere, although they may not perform as well. A fusial thrust engine like an X-wing's, though, would probably be like riding a sustained nuclear explosion.
I had a custom built ship as a PC that used magnetoplasma rockets, which are kind of a blend between Ion engines and fusial thrust engines. You couldn't do any more than just idle them in an atmosphere, because the ship would burn up in it's own jet exhaust.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not looking to get too into detail on this. The RPG rules don't differentiate between different drive types, and I don't feel like going through the entire stat collection and marking yes or no on whether or not one ship's drives will have an effect while others don't. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to go with the idea that all ships (unless specifically noted otherwise) have separate atmosphere and sublight drives as the sublight drives have negative effects when used in-atmosphere.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm not looking to get too into detail on this. The RPG rules don't differentiate between different drive types, and I don't feel like going through the entire stat collection and marking yes or no on whether or not one ship's drives will have an effect while others don't. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to go with the idea that all ships (unless specifically noted otherwise) have separate atmosphere and sublight drives as the sublight drives have negative effects when used in-atmosphere. |
I'm not sure I know what to tell you, then.
Ion drives seem to be the default. They might have trouble keeping up with air drag. Maybe you could just find out for recurring ships, like your player's and make a decision on the spot about other ones.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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I remember reading something somewhere sometime about that very thing. It was a while ago, and I've slept since then, but I think the gist was that the main engines would be more powerful in atmosphere but have a harmful effect on the environment.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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The references I can find in the Star Wars Sourcebook states that while H-K ion drives can be dangerous at close range, they are safe to use in atmosphere. In addition, Luke uses the trick in The last Command to evade a pair of Skipray Blastboats on Poderis. The only thing that comes close to doing what the Firefly did in the video clip above is Yevethan thrust-ships in the Black Fleet Crisis, which use Aradian Pulse Lifters both in space and in atmosphere...
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Ion drives seem to be the default. They might have trouble keeping up with air drag. |
There are all kinds of ships in the SWU that lack aerodynamics, yet still function just fine in space and in atmosphere. IMO, high tech is the reason: repulsorlifts provide the lift regardless of the ship's actual aerodynamic characteristics, and the ship's navigation shields redirect atmosphere smoothly around the ship in flight.
| Quote: | | Maybe you could just find out for recurring ships, like your player's and make a decision on the spot about other ones. |
The way things are evolving, it may just end up being a massive boost in speed, with a comparative loss in maneuverability and/or increased difficulty when piloting in atmosphere. Massive, damaging reactions from space drives being employed intraatmospherically seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Sublight vs. Atmospheric Drive |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Just had an idle thought. What happens if a starship uses its sublight drive while still in atmosphere? |
Well generally if they are trying to go up, they go up and if they are trying to go down, they go down.  There really aren't separate drives for atmosphere and space - one clue is that most if not virtually all space speed x ships have the same atmospheric speed.
If you want to make up a different sort of drive, then I guess the effect depends on what sort of drive you want to make up. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
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The only diff i have seen in game, is that those within the 'Jet wash" of the engines get burn damage..
IIRC it was 0-6m/12d, 7-14m 10d, 15-21m/8d and 22-28m/6d..
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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So no variation on damage based on engine power?
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Airspeeders like the T-1 use ion drives to augment thier repulsorlifts, so I don't think starfighters should get a big speed boost by using thier Space engines. I doubt most starfighters could take the stresses that could go with slamming through an atmosphere at high Mach speeds. It would be like driving into a brick wall.
Just saying no would keep things simple |
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Gamer
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | Airspeeders like the T-1 use ion drives to augment thier repulsorlifts, so I don't think starfighters should get a big speed boost by using thier Space engines. I doubt most starfighters could take the stresses that could go with slamming through an atmosphere at high Mach speeds. It would be like driving into a brick wall.
Just saying no would keep things simple |
yep saying no is the best way, otherwise you'd turn it into a physics lesson in fluid dynamics on how the handwavium B.S really isn't going to save your spaceship a those speeds in atmosphere. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | So no variation on damage based on engine power? |
I don't know.. The 2 times it came up were in a HT-2200..
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamer wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | Airspeeders like the T-1 use ion drives to augment thier repulsorlifts, so I don't think starfighters should get a big speed boost by using thier Space engines. I doubt most starfighters could take the stresses that could go with slamming through an atmosphere at high Mach speeds. It would be like driving into a brick wall.
Just saying no would keep things simple |
yep saying no is the best way, otherwise you'd turn it into a physics lesson in fluid dynamics on how the handwavium B.S really isn't going to save your spaceship a those speeds in atmosphere. |
You're addressing the problem from a modern physics standpoint and ignoring the fact that we are playing in a sci-fi universe which has technobabble fixes for this stuff: navigation shielding (aerodynamics and protection from friction) and acceleration compensators (protects the frame from stress too, not just the pilot.
And just saying No and ignoring it ignores at least one instance in the EU where it has actually happened, which is something I tend to take into account. Some of the EU I let fall by the wayside, but of the stuff I keep, Zahn novels tend to be at the top of the list...
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I read recently that Ion engines are 'mildly' radioactive when used in the atmosphere. Dont remember where though...most likely WookieP.
Ah, here it is.. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ion_drive
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