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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Naaman, did you know you already get extra damage via the demo skill? So that (A) skill is kind of pointless. |
I'd be inclined to use an Advanced skill related to demolitions as something that allows the character to design new types of explosives - like Chemistry or Chemical Engineering focused on things that go boom or to design structures to resist explosion - a cross between Architecture/Civil Engineering/Fortification. |
I could see this being a good application for the skill. Even being able to "jury rig" new types of explosives (think MacGuiver) out of stuff that's just lying around. |
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Rerun941
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | True.. Tasks i feel Medicine would work but you could not attempt with first aid (or auto fail)..
Replace limbs with cybernetics
Use clone vats to grow new tissue
Major operations such as repairing valves, or tumor removal |
Operating a Bacta Tank is also on that list of Medicine-only tasks.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | Operating a Bacta Tank is also on that list of Medicine-only tasks. |
I'd just hate to see a character die without any recourse if there was a functional bacta tank, but no one with Medicine. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Grant a search check (moderate difficulty, for example), and on a success, they find the owner's manual nearby  |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Rerun941 wrote: | | Operating a Bacta Tank is also on that list of Medicine-only tasks. |
I'd just hate to see a character die without any recourse if there was a functional bacta tank, but no one with Medicine. |
Maybe you can house rule that if they manage to immerse the injured party with a breathing apparatus, they can't get any worse while they're in the tank...
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Which is why it makes no sense to me that it would require medicine since being dunked in bacta should be all you need. Ergo i allow it for first aid with a high @$$ difficulty.. to show that you need to know the proper mix to put in.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | True, true. But, sometimes, the "official" descriptions do nothing to enhance the fun. My version of Form 1 represents perfection of the fundamentals of lightsaber combat. I'll explain Form 1 here:
Obviously, the character adds his Form 1 dice to his lightsaber skill. He is also allowed to re-roll a single die per skill check on attacks, parries, deflections and re-direction of blaster bolts. He may re-roll a number of dice per round equal to his number of dice in the (A) skill, but no more than one die per skill check.
This way, the "maximum" potential of form 1 is the same as for using the regular skill, but the consistency of success is pushed up a bit. My idea for form 1 is essentially, practice makes perfect. |
When I did it my version of the Seven Forms, I did a lot of research into the official story behind the seven forms (excluding the hack job that KOTOR 2 inflicted on them). Specifically for Form I, I found several references to Form I not being as capable as the other Forms in their specific areas of specialization (hence the development of the other Forms in the first place).
Form I is the basic form from which all other Forms derive, and doesn't particularly specialize in any one combat situation over another. In addition, its basic simplicity initially lags behind the other, more specialized Forms. However, adepts who focus on that simplicity will ultimately become quite formidable in the long run (in game terms, focusing all of your CPs on a single skill rather than splitting it between multiple advanced skills means that a Form I adept will face a much shallower CP cost slope than a character trying to advance Forms II-VII with the Advanced Skill double Cp cost)
If you make Form I an Advanced Form, it advances at the same dice rate as the other Form specializations, but without the penalties one might encounter with, say, Form II's melee combat specialization or Form III's defensive specialization. At that point, why bother with the other six Forms?
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | My intent was not to write every skill the way I wrote it up in the house rule. I just wanted to give an idea of what was possible with the advanced skill vs with the regular skill. The (A) demo skill is more for covert operations and military type stuff where the operator needs the victim to (at least initially) draw a false conclusion (or, at least require a lengthy investigation to determine the cause). |
I understand your intent., I'm just saying that it really ins't possible to do what you want that wa, covert ops or not. .
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but you can assess the environment, take them into consideration, and say "I can guarantee that the structure will not collapse for at least 36 hours, but it could last as long as 120 hours (and you actually expect it to last about 72 hours, given what you've deduced). |
No, you can't. Once a structure starts to fail, the procecess will acclerate until total collapse. So you can't tell if it is going to be safe for 36 hours. The difficulty lies in the fact that the structre must support it's own weight, plus and variable weight (people and vehicles), but it has been compromised. This causes addtional damage, which makes the poblem worse, which causes addtional damage, etc. etc. etc.until the structre finally collapses. And you can't really predict when the end will come.
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The sophistication of your enemy (are they brutish cave men, or advanced, high tech civilization?) will also limit how much you can "get away with" and for how long. |
Yeah, there is some truth there. But that has little to do with Demolitions as an (A) skill.Anyculture notfamilar with explosives can be easily duped into thinking something else was responsible. But then, people fom the middle ages wouldn't be able to figure out hat happened if you nuked a city, either. They just don't have the right knowledge to let then figure it out, and would most likely try to explain it using what they do know. Divine retribution or some such. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | I could see this being a good application for the skill. Even being able to "jury rig" new types of explosives (think MacGuiver) out of stuff that's just lying around. |
Some RPGs have an Anarchy skill that covers that sort of thing. But that really isnt ad "advanced" skill. Far from it. In fact, if it were an advanced skill, it wouldn't "work". The whole idea is that it allows one to destroy things and hurt people using common, easily obtained items. Anybody with a little knowledge of chemistry can thow together something nasty. It isn't that tough. It doesn't requie advanced trainingto to make a pipe bomb or to mix bleech and ammonia.
And such devices are less effective than standard explosives, and drugs. In general, if one has access to professionally made weapons, one doesn't need to kit-bash something-nor would one want to.Kit-bashed ordinance is used when nothing better is available.
BTW, Has anybody else here seen the Anarchist's Cookbook? |
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
If you make Form I an Advanced Form, it advances at the same dice rate as the other Form specializations, but without the penalties one might encounter with, say, Form II's melee combat specialization or Form III's defensive specialization. At that point, why bother with the other six Forms? |
Because the other six forms do specific things better (according to the canon). Those forms specialize in a particular area, and are very good at it. Form 1 is just a little bit better at everything than someone who doesn't specifically focus their discipline on totally mastering the basics. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | ]
Because the other six forms do specific things better (according to the canon). Those forms specialize in a particular area, and are very good at it. Form 1 is just a little bit better at everything than someone who doesn't specifically focus their discipline on totally mastering the basics. |
But if that were true, why bother learning Form I (A) at all? You could just put those Cps in Lightsaber skill or your Force skills. |
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | BTW, Has anybody else here seen the Anarchist's Cookbook? |
Oh, like I'm gonna answer that question when posed by someone on an Internet forum. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | ]
Because the other six forms do specific things better (according to the canon). Those forms specialize in a particular area, and are very good at it. Form 1 is just a little bit better at everything than someone who doesn't specifically focus their discipline on totally mastering the basics. |
But if that were true, why bother learning Form I (A) at all? You could just put those Cps in Lightsaber skill or your Force skills. |
Ah... so we're going with the CP cost argument... If we say that the prereq for Form 1 is 5D in lightsaber, then, it actually IS cheaper to learn the (A) skill for a little while: for a mere 2 CP you gain an entire 1D bonus on your skill rolls. Then, the next 3 pip increases, it's 2 CP per pip. (Bringing you to 7D total). Then, for the next three, it's 4 CP per pip (now you're at 8D). So, for a total cost of 20 CP, you've gained 3D. Whereas if you just raise the base skill, you have to spend 15 CP to get it up to 6D and 18 more to get it up to 7D (33 CP) and another 21 to bring it up to 8D (54 CP total). From here, the advanced skill user spends 6 CP per increase, while the base skill user spends 8... then it's 8 for the (A) skill, and 9 for the base skill. Then, when you reach 10D lightsaber or 5D + (A) 5D, you equal out. So, you'd have to reach 6D in the (A) skill in order to make it more expensive to raise the advanced skill.
So you'd have more CPs to spend on your Force skills. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | So you'd have more CPs to spend on your Force skills. |
The problem there being that, if you allow Form I the exact same split-CP cost as Forms II through VII, you blow away any incentive to learn them in the first place. Why put skill dice in those skills at all if you could just stick to (A) Form I, which enhances all aspects of lightsaber combat at the exact same CP cost as it would be to improve Form II in just melee combat, or any of the other Forms in their particular area of specialization? The very description of Form I calls it a basic Form, from which all other Forms are derived. It's silly to include an advanced skill to perfect a basic Form when WEG already has rules in place for that: spend CP to increase your dice in the basic Lightsaber skill.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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You're assuming that the other skills are written such that they are inferior to form 1. Form 1 gives a sliver of benefit to each aspect of combat, while Forms 2 through 7 grant significant bonuses to their specialty areas. I also tied in each form with a specific Force power, which allows that power to be used in a combat-specific manner, not available to a user of the basic lightsaber skill.
After some recent research, however, I will have to modify this Force power part of the 7 Forms.
Use what you want, toss what you don't. That's how I came up with my (still growning) list of advanced skills. I'm not imposing my version of Form 1 on anyone. I won't banish you if you choose not to use it |
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