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Jatrell
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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: Force Skills |
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Control, sense and alter. Are these considered attributes or skills with regards to how character points affect their advancement?
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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Both.
At character creation, it takes base attribute dice to learn each. 1D for 1D.
If the character doesn't have a force attribute, it costs 10 character points for the first D.
After that, it costs normal character points for advancement IF the character has a teacher. If not, then it costs double the die code.
Example:
Minor Jedi So and So has a 1D Control, and wants to learn under a force using hermit that he's found. If the hermit agrees to teach him, he pays 1 character points, and his control attribute is now 1D+1.
Or:
Later in his career, the minor Jedi returns to the hermit to continue his training, however the inquisition has found the hermit and killed him. However, he does find the hermit's journal and continues to train his control which is now 4D, it will cost him 8 character points and take 16 days of training.
Hope this helps. |
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Jatrell
Ensign
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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No that is perfect. I apreciate the insight. Was starting to think that my force users in my play group were getting too powerfull too quickly. thought we may even have to reroll, but it appears we have been doing it correctly
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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If you think they are getting too powerful (D wise) start enforcing the training times, and have enemy force hunting teams be consistently on their tail.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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However, based on the direction that the EU has gone, making Force Sensitivity an attribute, with Control, Sense and Alter as skills under it, would be a better representation. The base attribute would represent the character's inate Force ability, so the average Jedi character might have a Force attribute of 3D, while someone like Anakin would be as high as 6D.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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How much above the base attribute could they take the force skills??
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How much above the base attribute could they take the force skills?? |
Maybe no more than 1D per skill for starters, with a Force attribute selected from the total of the starting attribute dice.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I keep coming back to the idea of having increased Force Sensitivity being linked in some way to an Advantage/Disadvantage chart, so that the higher a persons Force dice is, the more challenging their life is, in the form of Inquisitors looking for him, the Dark Side calling to him more strongly, etc...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Bud, the way you control character advancement is the Golden rule that powers require training, skills can be advanced on your own.
If they want new powers (you can have one per pip) they must have training or else come up with tremendous exploration and a sidequest to discover ONE on their own.
So in my game my Jedi is a Sense 2D quixotic and he wants to learn lightsabre combat, and needs Control die, well I can just accumulate Character points, and pay extra to develop Control 1D on my own, but that still doesn't give me any Control or Control/Sense powers. It just gives me dice.
If I want powers, I need to discover them, or be trained in them. It holds me back unless I have a tutor in the party.
GM's tend to control tutors.
There's your control.
oh and the way you deliver it to PCs is you make a Jedi Lore requirement for individual powers, then adjust difficulty based on circumstance of their discovering/tutoring in that power. Then character point expenditure, and off you go.
Last edited by vanir on Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vanir
Jedi
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | How much above the base attribute could they take the force skills?? |
Maybe no more than 1D per skill for starters, with a Force attribute selected from the total of the starting attribute dice. |
Some templates start with more than 1D in a particular Force skill, but it is taken from the 18D heroic (player) character base.
Some of the Tales of the Jedi templates eg, have Control 1D Sense 2D and then 15D in the base Attributes, like that.
The benefit of using templates (there's a collection on pdf link downloadable from this site), is that you get powers with the starting skills. If you develop skills on your own, technically there's no specific reason you get powers, and you're not supposed to unless ruled by the GM. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: |
If I want powers, I need to discover them, or be trained in them. It holds me back unless I have a tutor in the party.
GM's tend to control tutors.
There's your control.
oh and the way you deliver it to PCs is you make a Jedi Lore requirement for individual powers, then adjust difficulty based on circumstance of their discovering/tutoring in that power. Then character point expenditure, and off you go. |
Yup. No teacher, hard to learn (double CP cost for increasing power itself and no learning force powers..)
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | Some templates start with more than 1D in a particular Force skill, but it is taken from the 18D heroic (player) character base. |
Correct!
| Quote: | | Some of the Tales of the Jedi templates eg, have Control 1D Sense 2D and then 15D in the base Attributes, like that. |
Not Correct (I added the bolded emphasis). According to the RAW, this should be 2D off attributes with the additional 1D to Sense coming from the 7D of beginning skills.
A Jedi with 15D of starting attributes would have all three Force Skills, so Control 1D, Sense 1D, and Alter 1D. She could then add additional skill dice to her three Force skills from her 7D of starting skill dice.
Also note aht the Young Jedi template is incorrect in some of the sources. There is a typo on skills IIR. |
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | vanir wrote: | | Some templates start with more than 1D in a particular Force skill, but it is taken from the 18D heroic (player) character base. |
Correct!
| Quote: | | Some of the Tales of the Jedi templates eg, have Control 1D Sense 2D and then 15D in the base Attributes, like that. |
Not Correct (I added the bolded emphasis). According to the RAW, this should be 2D off attributes with the additional 1D to Sense coming from the 7D of beginning skills.
A Jedi with 15D of starting attributes would have all three Force Skills, so Control 1D, Sense 1D, and Alter 1D. She could then add additional skill dice to her three Force skills from her 7D of starting skill dice.
Also note aht the Young Jedi template is incorrect in some of the sources. There is a typo on skills IIR. |
Not in Tales of the Jedi (old Republic) setting, and I like this as a general house rule.
Miraluka healer template, 3D control, 15D base attributes.
Battlemaster 2D control, 1D sense, 15D base attributes.
etc.
When giving Force abilities during character creation they are attributes. When learning or advancing skills through gameplay, they are treated as skills.
This works best in our game for a few reasons,
during character creation, when assigning Force skills Players may award themselves powers of their choosing (1 per pip). Letting them assign Force abilities using their 7D of skill dice is effectively handing over the Jedi Temple for a bit, the smart play is for any character to put ALL their skill die into Jedi abilities and select a whole stack of Force powers during character creation.
Solves the training problem. Then you can just go up at double CP cost already with a stack of powers you know, who needs more once you've the good ones.
Finally this system, which is reflected clearly in WEG material concerts to take development in Force abilities as seriously as GMs are supposed to. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | Not in Tales of the Jedi (old Republic) setting, and I like this as a general house rule.
Miraluka healer template, 3D control, 15D base attributes.
Battlemaster 2D control, 1D sense, 15D base attributes.
etc. |
Checked the templates in the Collection and you are correct.  How odd that WEG violated the RAW in creating those templates. It seems especially strange in a time when the Jedi were relatively common and unpersecuted. I wouldn't use that rule myself, but it's good it works out for your group Vanir. |
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vanir
Jedi
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Posts: 793
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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I had the original 1st edition Rulebook back when there were only three books in the entire game, then the first 2E but had a hiatus since the 90s. Pretty sure one of those specifies however that Force abilites are considered attributes during character creation and then skills during gameplay.
The RAW you mention, is that from 2E R&E or something? |
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