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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: Starship Weapon Design |
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I7ve been working on a system for designing starfighter weapons "from scratch", and am looking for a few designs to test it.
The current limits are:
Starfighter scale
No turbolasers (yet).
What I can handle is:
Fire Control
Damage Code
-optional rule for custom Range Stats
-Optional rule for building twin/double, triple and quad weapons
-optional rule for fixed, swivel, 2-arc, 3-arc, and 4-arc turrets
Anyone want to test this out? |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, wait: you want some home brew examples of starfighter weapons to play test, or want input on how to design the system? |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | Okay, wait: you want some home brew examples of starfighter weapons to play test, or want input on how to design the system? |
I want some test cases to try out my pre-existing design system.
For example, a triple heavy laser (5D damage), with 2D fire control?
Triple Heavy Laser Cannons
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 7D
Cost: 6000 credits
Weight: 5 tons
Note, that "triple" cannons work out to be much cheaper and lighter than three linked cannons, but if damaged you lose the whole weapon. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ah ha. I see. Now, your "triple" weapon set up... when fired, they shoot as one (like a linked weapon), but when damaged, you're SOL... I like it.
Now, was 5 tons just an arbitrary number you threw out there? 5 Tons seems extremely heavy for a starfighter scale weapon to me... maybe my SW knowledge is kinda limited, but 10,000 lbs for a weapon system seems quite large. Each weapon itself would (I'd estimate) weigh about 100 lbs, with another 100-300 lbs of equipment used to hook it up to the spacecraft (turrets, gyrostabilizers, ammo containers, targeting equipment etc). I'd estimate this triple laser cannon would weigh in at under a half ton once it was fully assembled, loaded and mounted on the ship.
Here's a quick contribution:
The Scorpion
This weapon was named for it's ability to effectively paralyze it's targets and cause severe damage at the same time. The weapon is a fire-linked ion cannon and laser cannon that are fired in a staggered pattern: the ion blast hitting first in order to make the target more vulnerable to the trailing laser blast. The targeting computer is some of the most sophisticated technology available to fighter pilots, but the calculations required, along with the recharge time of the weapon itself reduces the fire rate compared to traditional weapons.
Fire Control: 3D
Range: 1/7/15
Fire Rate: 1/2
Damage: 4D+2 ionization/5D+2 energy damage
Cost: 12000 credits
Weight: 300 kg
Notes: The scorpion is a fire-linked "double barreled" weapon that fires an ion blast one millisecond prior to firing it's laser blast. The targeting computer accounts for the trajectory of the target, leading the target if necessary when it fires. If a hit is scored, first roll the ionization damage and determine the results (particularly important if shields are ionized). Then roll the laser's damage.
Last edited by Naaman on Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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How about an "ion sniper"? (Long range, double mounted ion cannon on a swivel mount, 4D fire control?) _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Naaman"]Ah ha. I see. Now, your "triple" weapon set up... when fired, they shoot as one (like a linked weapon), but when damaged, you're SOL... I like it.
Now, was 5 tons just an arbitrary number you threw out there? 5 Tons seems extremely heavy for a starfighter scale weapon to me... maybe my SW knowledge is kinda limited, but 10,000 lbs for a weapon system seems quite large. [/quiote]
The weights, were worked out from the weights given for weapons in D6 and D20. I reverse engineered the data for existing weapons and worked up some numbers that fit the costs and weights given in Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters, and the D20 Starships of the Galaxy (1E).
So my numbers are (hopefully) compatible with the values given in Tramp Freighters.
A heavy laser cannon (5D) weights 3 tons (according to Galaxy Guide 6), so the triple laser cannon I wrote up gets a great savings in weight, as some of the components (power storage capacitors, fire control computer, etc) are shared amomg all three blasters..
5 tons for a weapon system isn't very much for a cannon.
Quote: |
Each weapon itself would (I'd estimate) weigh about 100 lbs, with another 100-300 lbs of equipment used to hook it up to the spacecraft
(turrets, gyrostabilizers, ammo containers, targeting equipment etc). I'd estimate this triple laser cannon would weigh in at under a half ton once it was fully assembled, loaded and mounted on the e laser's damage. |
Where did you get your estimates from? All the soruces give much higher weights. 100 pounds would make these weapon only about 20% heavier than a modern 50 caliber MG.
If the weapons had such low weights, it would cause some problems with freighter ships. 1 ton is negligible for such ships. |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: | How about an "ion sniper"? (Long range, double mounted ion cannon on a swivel mount, 4D fire control?) |
Okay, since you didn't specify damage here are a few examples to choose from::
Double Light Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 2D
Cost: 2500 credits
Weight:1.5 mt
Double Medium Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 4D
Cost: 2875 credits
Weight:2.25 mt
Double Heavy Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 5D
Cost: 3625 credits
Weight:3.75 mt |
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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: |
Now, was 5 tons just an arbitrary number you threw out there? 5 Tons seems extremely heavy for a starfighter scale weapon to me... maybe my SW knowledge is kinda limited, but 10,000 lbs for a weapon system seems quite large. Each weapon itself would (I'd estimate) weigh about 100 lbs, with another 100-300 lbs of equipment used to hook it up to the spacecraft (turrets, gyrostabilizers, ammo containers, targeting equipment etc). I'd estimate this triple laser cannon would weigh in at under a half ton once it was fully assembled, loaded and mounted on the ship.
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The bulky part of the X-wing's laser cannons seem to be metal, about 5 feet long and about 18 inches in diameter, while the long thin part appears to be metal 4-6 inches in diameter 20 or so feet long. That strikes me as a weapon liable to weigh well over 1 ton. For comparison, a GAU-8 avenger cannon system weighs over 2 tons with full ammo and is only 20 feet long. atgxtg wrote: | Fallon Kell wrote: | How about an "ion sniper"? (Long range, double mounted ion cannon on a swivel mount, 4D fire control?) |
Okay, since you didn't specify damage here are a few examples to choose from::
Double Light Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 2D
Cost: 2500 credits
Weight:1.5 mt
Double Medium Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 4D
Cost: 2875 credits
Weight:2.25 mt
Double Heavy Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 5D
Cost: 3625 credits
Weight:3.75 mt |
Looks downright reasonable to me. Good job on your system _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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thedemonapostle Commander
Joined: 02 Aug 2011 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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atgxtg wrote: |
Where did you get your estimates from? All the soruces give much higher weights. 100 pounds would make these weapon only about 20% heavier than a modern 50 caliber MG.
If the weapons had such low weights, it would cause some problems with freighter ships. 1 ton is negligible for such ships. |
Interesting that you should mention the .50 cal, as that weapon is an anti aircraft weapon. Individually, they weigh 84 lbs. Link 4 of them together on a turret mount and you have an airplane killer.
I'd estimate (and this is just a guess), that the "cannon" on a tank would be measured in tons rather than pounds, but a round like that would obliterate an aircraft (starfighter scale). 5 tons for a weapon that belongs on something that is supposed to fly (when it's in atmosphere) seems pretty obese....
A mission-ready F18 weighs just under 37,000 lbs (18.5 tons) Over 13,000 of those pounds are fuel, which brings us down to a weight of 24,000 lbs. The "empty" weight of the plane is 23,000 pounds... are we to believe that 10,000 of those pounds are just the weapons? Especially when a good portion of it's firepower is missiles? The Vulcan cannon on the F18 weighs 248 (A1) OR 202 (A2) lbs. For reference, it fires 20mm rounds at 100 rounds per second.
Now, I know that Real Life is not Star Wars, but... you know it helps to have real life references. At the end of the day, if 5 tons is what you say it weighs, then that's what it weighs. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: |
For comparison, a GAU-8 avenger cannon system weighs over 2 tons with full ammo and is only 20 feet long.
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The GAU-8 itself weighs 620 lbs. The entire system, to include gobs and gobs of ammo comes in around 4000 lbs, I believe, so that may be justification for claiming tons instead of pounds. But that is some serious firepower for a lot less weight than 5 tons.
Once again, though... I may be totally off my rocker here. I was just trying to offer some perspective, but if I'm off the mark, please, just ignore my babbling |
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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | Fallon Kell wrote: |
For comparison, a GAU-8 avenger cannon system weighs over 2 tons with full ammo and is only 20 feet long.
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The GAU-8 itself weighs 620 lbs. The entire system, to include gobs and gobs of ammo comes in around 4000 lbs, I believe, so that may be justification for claiming tons instead of pounds. But that is some serious firepower for a lot less weight than 5 tons.
Once again, though... I may be totally off my rocker here. I was just trying to offer some perspective, but if I'm off the mark, please, just ignore my babbling | True, but starfighters have repulsorlifts and massive thrust (even by my famously slow estimates!), so weight may not be such a limiting factor in a starfighter as it is with aerodynamic flight. Plus, those blasters themselves do look a lot heavier than a couple hundred pounds. _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | Fallon Kell wrote: |
For comparison, a GAU-8 avenger cannon system weighs over 2 tons with full ammo and is only 20 feet long.
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The GAU-8 itself weighs 620 lbs. The entire system, to include gobs and gobs of ammo comes in around 4000 lbs, I believe, so that may be justification for claiming tons instead of pounds. But that is some serious firepower for a lot less weight than 5 tons. |
Serious firepower is a relative term. THe thing to consider here is just how tough Starfighter scale ships are in the game. A X-Wing with a 4D hull code is as tough as an AT-AT (6D Hull codce walker scale). While direct comparisons to real world vehicles isn't possible at this time, since we haven't seen anything quite like real world vehicles in Star Wars yet, based on the At-At comparison, I think it is safe to assume that X-Wings are a lot tougher than an F-18. So the laser cannons on the X-Wing are much more powerful than a GAU.
Quote: |
Once again, though... I may be totally off my rocker here. I was just trying to offer some perspective, but if I'm off the mark, please, just ignore my babbling |
As I wrote previously, the weights given are designed to match up with the weights previously given for the weapons. The official stats for a heavy blaster cannon (as listed in Galaxy Guide :6 Tramp Freighters) are Fire Control: 2D, Damage: 5D, Cost: 3000 credits, Weight: 4 tons. As I want this to match up with the official stats as much as possible, I can't write up something similar that only weights a couple of hundred kilograms. Not without invalidating all the weapon data given so far for D6 Star Wars and D20 Star Wars. |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: |
Looks downright reasonable to me. Good job on your system |
Thanks. On second look, I spotted an error on the weights. All are off 0.75mt (I should have factored in for range before adjusting for a twin/double gun, and I used the wrong value for range). Revised states are as follows:
Double Light Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 2D
Cost: 2500 credits
Weight:2.25 mt
Double Medium Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 4D
Cost: 2875 credits
Weight:3 mt
Double Heavy Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-5/20/40
Damage: 5D
Cost: 3625 credits
Weight:3.75 mt[/quote]
Also, as you asked for "long range" sniper version,I probably should have upped the range a little more. A regular iion gun can shoot out to 36, and 40 isn't much better. So here are writeups with longer range stats. You can compare with the above to see the increased cost and weight due to the increased range.
Double Light Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-7/24/48
Damage: 2D
Cost: 3300 credits
Weight:3.5 mt
Double Medium Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-7/24/48
Damage: 4D
Cost: 3700 credits
Weight:5.75 mt
Double Heavy Ion Cannons (swivel mounted)
Fire Control: 4D (actually 3D+1D for swivel mount)
Range:1-7/24/48
Damage: 5D
Cost: 4550 credits
Weight:8 mt[/quote] |
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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! I may just have to put one of these into use in my next adventure... _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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