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garhkal
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 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: Can you use first aid without medpacks? |
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As the thread title suggests, can one successfully use first aid to treat people without having a med pack to heal them?>
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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I say yes, but certain things will require certain tools or medicines. You can perform first aid for a compound fracture with a bottle of whiskey, a few strips of clean linen, and some sturdy sticks, but if it were my fracture, I'd prefer a medkit with anesthetics...
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I say yes, but certain things will require certain tools or medicines. You can perform first aid for a compound fracture with a bottle of whiskey, a few strips of clean linen, and some sturdy sticks, but if it were my fracture, I'd prefer a medkit with anesthetics... |
Ok, here's one then. Should anestetics have some game mechanical effect, like a mini-Control-Pain?
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jmanski
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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I would say you can use first aid without a medpak. You wouldn't get to roll to reduce the injury, just help keep the injury from getting worse.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | I say yes, but certain things will require certain tools or medicines. You can perform first aid for a compound fracture with a bottle of whiskey, a few strips of clean linen, and some sturdy sticks, but if it were my fracture, I'd prefer a medkit with anesthetics... |
Ok, here's one then. Should anestetics have some game mechanical effect, like a mini-Control-Pain? |
I don't deal much with force powers, so I'm not sure what Control Pain does. I do give anesthetics a mechanical effect, though. I change an anesthetized wound from -1D from all actions to -1D from all actions using the wounded body part, so a character with an anesthetized injury to his leg would not suffer a penalty to blaster, but would suffer a penalty to starship piloting, because they use foot pedals for yaw control.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: |
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That is an interesting suggestion. What of say wounds to the head?
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That is an interesting suggestion. What of say wounds to the head? |
I figure if you anesthetize your head, everything will be at a 1D penalty anyways. No mechanical effect, but it's more pleasant for the character.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it should affect everything
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Yeah, it should affect everything |
That's the difference between a local and general anesthetic. A local affects only a certain area, while the general affects everything. Generals tend to be much more complicated than locals, because the anesthesiologist has to monitor the patient's vital signs and regulate the amount of anesthetic in the patient's system to keep them under.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | Yeah, it should affect everything |
That's the difference between a local and general anesthetic. A local affects only a certain area, while the general affects everything. Generals tend to be much more complicated than locals, because the anesthesiologist has to monitor the patient's vital signs and regulate the amount of anesthetic in the patient's system to keep them under. |
True, but they both work by blocking neurotransmitters, and there are only so many nerves in the head you can block without interfering with the brain.
Hopefully, the brain is involved in all of your players actions...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | True, but they both work by blocking neurotransmitters, and there are only so many nerves in the head you can block without interfering with the brain. |
Actually, local anesthesia only blocks neurotransmitters at the site itself, hence the term local. With a local, the signals never reach the brain. In fact, whenever possible, doctors prefer to sedate their patients and give them a heavy duty local anesthetic, as this technique is safer than putting the patient completely under.
| Quote: | | Hopefully, the brain is involved in all of your players actions... |
You haven't met my players.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Actually, local anesthesia only blocks neurotransmitters at the site itself, hence the term local. With a local, the signals never reach the brain. In fact, whenever possible, doctors prefer to sedate their patients and give them a heavy duty local anesthetic, as this technique is safer than putting the patient completely under. |
Yes, that's true, but a wound is almost certainly going to be deeper than just a cut in the scalp. You'd need to numb up more than just a single main nerve. Also, the anesthetic can spread a little from the injection site, and if you need to numb up a fractured skull for example, a local probably isn't the safest way to go.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Also, the anesthetic can spread a little from the injection site, and if you need to numb up a fractured skull for example, a local probably isn't the safest way to go. |
Putting a person under general anesthesia is generally a medical professional's last choice. I don't know the exact statistics, but there is a small percentage of people who are put under general anesthesia for an operation and never wake up.
Besides, getting back to the original point, I thought that Control Pain allowed the character to act as if a Stun or Injury result didn't actually exist, but doesn't actually heal the wound. If you have a medpack that actually heals the wound, then Control Pain would be superfluous, because it heals the wound, rather than simply letting the character ignore it.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Also, the anesthetic can spread a little from the injection site, and if you need to numb up a fractured skull for example, a local probably isn't the safest way to go. |
Putting a person under general anesthesia is generally a medical professional's last choice. I don't know the exact statistics, but there is a small percentage of people who are put under general anesthesia for an operation and never wake up.
Besides, getting back to the original point, I thought that Control Pain allowed the character to act as if a Stun or Injury result didn't actually exist, but doesn't actually heal the wound. If you have a medpack that actually heals the wound, then Control Pain would be superfluous, because it heals the wound, rather than simply letting the character ignore it. |
Well, this thread was originally about not having a medpack...
General anesthesia is "murder suspended". You're holding a person on the very brink of death when you put them under for an operation. I think, though, that if you dribble a local anesthetic on the surface of the brain, (a thing not impossible to do if you have a subdural hematoma) then you have reached beyond the bounds of "suspension" and are just left with plain old murder...
All this to say that a head wound should probably leave you at -1D for all actions regardless of whether you can anesthetize or not.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I know just enough about modern medicine to know that we really should leave the pseudo-science out of it and concentrate on what the RAW tells us. Not because the RAW is necessarily right, but because we aren't actually playing in the real world, and to get into detailed medical analysis of the effects of anesthesia and medpacks on all the various species in the galaxy is likely taking it too far.
That being said, back to garhkal's original question, I think it would be more appropriate to have a First Aid roll without a medpack be applied as some form of bonus to the wounded character's natural healing roll. A character with a good First Aid skill might be able to improvise some basic supplies from a medpack...
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