Fixing the skypray blastboat

[ZzaphodD]

[ZzaphodD]

[garhkal]

This is why, yet again, i say there should be an interim scale between fighter and capital, with 3d bonus/penalty from/to either. Which to me the Skip ray would do WELL to fit into.
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[Grimace]

I concur, garhkal.

There's enough versions of scaling rules in D6 so that these "issues" with the Skipray could easily be fixed.

[ZzaphodD]

[thedemonapostle]

in all honesty i loved this ship. in my opinion this ship never took off because it, unlike most ships out there, has actual armor, over sized guns and in short is a true warship. most politicians want the intimidation of true warships without the price or effectiveness.
think I'm wrong about the whole armor thing? every official picture Ive seen of the interior of the ship shows approximately a 1/2 meter thick hull. the popular YT-1300's only appear to have about 1/8-1/4 meter of hull plating and even with the scale differences is about correct.
compared to the standard tie fighter's (tie/in) hull of 2D one could get confused. until you realize that tie fighters are not much more than 2 ion drives, a cock pit and 2 solar panels. not much is ever said that it has armor.
a YT-1300's hull seems more based upon its size, length and width rather than any armor.
an X-Wing (T-65B) being half the size has the same hull rating as a YT-1300 and roughly half that of the skipray. maybe it has a bit of armor covering it? perhaps a combat oriented ship twice the X-Wing's size would have twice the hull rating due to size and armor plating?
X-Wings became the most popular ship because of simple economics, it was cheap, easy to repair and build. in other words they could be acquired en-mass for a relatively low cost. tie fighters were even cheaper to build and the empire was more about numbers equals power.
the empire could get roughly 5 tie fighters for the cost of 1 skipray. the rebellion/new alliance could get roughly 2 X-Wings for the same price as 1 skipray.
an X-Wing could take out a skipray with a proton torpedo or with its lasers with a well placed, lucky, shot. unlikely? yes. impossible? no.
going back to the original topic, the skipray is a starfighter with an over sized power core. which it needs to power its ion cannons and shields. otherwise its just a starfighter.
just looking through the starfighters and i noticed the starviper has a 6D hull. also i noticed that the Xi Char Variable Geometry Self-Propelled Battle
Droid, Mk. 1 starfighter has a hull of 4D but is only 3.5 meters long. slightly armored for a tiny little thing. being roughly 1/7th the size of a skipray it seems to have roughly half of its hull.
my conclusion is this, its not that it is over powered, its more off a question of cost. the rebellion sees it as costing twice as much as an X-Wing and requiring 4 times as many crew and only getting 1 ship. the empire sees it as costing 5 times as mush as a tie fighter, getting only one ship when they want numbers rather than individual strength and it requires 4 crew, which is 3 more than it feels works for a starfighter. tactically the empire used tie fighters as cannon fodder and felt they were disposable. the costly skipray was not designed to be cannon fodder, it had a hyperdrive, which the empire wasn't fond of their fighters having, shields, again they didn't like that either, and should the crew all go rogue and attack the ISD, they could actually cause damage to the ISD. these factors were what made the ship popular with private governments, getting a tank for a decent price, and with pirates, and they don't usually buy what they got.

i personally don't like the scaling in D6 and tend to just convert everything in the scene to the lowest common denominator.
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Thedemonapostle Star Wars Crossovers

[schnarre]

...All in all, I never cared for the Skipray--finding ships like the Arakyd Helix preferable (or any other ship for that matter preferable). In my games I treated it as a passing folly: outside of picket duty & the odd anti-smuggler role (eventually only Corp. Sector would bother with them), they were too weak to survive in heavy combat (using 1st Ed Scaling rather than the R&E, the 2D+1 Hull proved a handicap even with 2D Shields--in one of my last games, a Skipray was run down & gunned down by a stock Scimitar Assault Bomber).

...While its weapon load out is decent, I would make a few changes before trying it. Making the ship starfighter-scale, increasing the Hull 4D+1, & making the Ion Cannon starfighter-scale (Ion cannons ignore Shields as it is); however, I also give it maintenance problems not unlike the B-Wing (such as if the wing is locked in place). It would still have a niche as a patrol craft, a bit more capable than the average fighter due to the 4-man crew, or as perhaps a scouting craft.
...My 2 creds worth anyway.
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[Fallon Kell]

I haven't run the skipray yet. To me it seems to be a workable ship with one or two minor aberrations. That's because I use 2E scaling.

Under 2E scaling, the skipray can be run as a capital just fine, but at 1D+2 capital scale it seems to have low maneuverability for a ship of only 25 meters and Space 8.
You could also run it as a fighter with capital scale weapons, as garhkal suggests. Then the hull and shields seem a little low for a combat ship of that size. I personally would give run the skipray as a capital ship, but add 1D to maneuver.

On a side note, I have done some experimentation with ships that have capital scale hull and shields and starfighter scale maneuverability. they really would have no benefit in 2R&E scaling, but in 2E they're interesting beasts. They seem to be fairly reasonable niche ships if you limit the maneuverability to about 1D or 2D, and the combined hull and shields to about 5D or 6D, and then make them expensive. They make fine torpedo boats.
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Complete Starship Construction System

[remo moxey]

I can't remember where I saw it but I thought the skipray was treated as a capital scale due to power output only, and the ion cannons were cap scale and everything else was treated as starfighter scale.

I find that making the ion cannons cap scale and everything else starfighter really brings the skipray back down into glass jaw type of fighter.

[garhkal]

IIRC are not also the shields cap??
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[Bren]

Shields and hull are clearly capital scale. Otherwise they would be more fragile than an X-wing - equal to a TIE with shields added actually.

[CRMcNeill]

Shields and Hull are definitely Cap Scale, but so is Maneuverability. This means that a Skipray, while being roughly the same size as a small freighter, has a maneuverability of -4d+1 in SF-Scale Combat. IMC, we apply scale modifiers to Maneuvers, so if a SF-Scale craft performs a maneuver, such as a bootleg turn, a CS-Scale craft is at -6D to attempt the same maneuver in the same round. The Scale penalty to Maneuver is reduced by 1D for every round that the CS-Scale craft waits to perform the same maneuver, so its pilot has a choice of risking a major mishap or waiting six rounds before his bulky flying slab can turn in place.

One change that I like is to have the Skipray's concussion missile launcher upgraded to CS-Scale, with a 2D-3D reduction in damage so that it isn't a complete munchkin platform.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[MA-3PO]

I use capital scale for hull and shields, starfighter scale for maneuverability. It seems reasonable to me that they are about as maneuverable as a B-wing which were explicitly designed to be a heavy assault starfighter. When you are taking on capital ships with a starfighter, maneuverability isn't quite as important since you are harder to target with capital ships weapons anyway. They built the skipray to fill the role between capital and starfighter and I think she performs that role nicely. Enough firepower to worry a capital ship but tough enough to withstand several hits from starfighters. She can tangle with both classes of ships. As with any starfighters they are particularly effective working in small squadrons of three to six.

[garhkal]

Agreed. Mvr should be SF scale.
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