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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: The Dark Side and Accelerated Healing |
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I was doing some Star Wars novel reading this weekend, and I came across mention of the Dark Side not functioning well with Force-based healing abilities, and it got me thinking. This is something that has featured in several media formats in the SWU, and although it isn't backed by WEG's rules, I think there may be something to it. My current idea (which is quite scant because I have spent the last 48 hours on a houseboat in 100+ degree temperature drinking alcohol) is that every DSP the character has increases the difficulty by +1 for Force healing powers (specifically Accelerate Healing and Accelerate Another's Healing, but may well include others). To me, it would seem a nice bit of balance to penalize those Sith and Dark Jedi when they have access to all the neat offensive powers...
Thoughts?
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like a reasonable balance. On the other hand, I might allow the healing but make it extremely painful and a process that leaves hideous scarring or some visible Dark Side taint - blackened skin, scales, scars, purple marks, etc.
BTW, since alcohol evaporates more efficiently than water all that alcohol should have had a beneficial cooling effect. So you should be feeling much better than if you had stuck to drinking water.  |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I recall reading the same thing although at the time I thought it seemed more like a retconned reason for Vader to have been unable to heal his lungs and still require a mobile life support system despite being strong in The Force.
As I recall (and I read this years ago) Vader could heal his lungs but was unable to maintain the Dark Side emotions (primarily rage) to keep the process going. Every time he tried to start healing his lungs the process would begin to work and he would start feeling hopeful and happy which disrupted the process.
This little shred of hope that still remained also helped me believe his turn back to the light at the end of Return of the Jedi.
That said I don't dislike the idea but I'd probably have it only effect those who still had the possibility of redemption. Once the Dark Side truely does dominate your path forever I'd be inclined to ditch the penalty.
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Although Palpatine has some kind of skin problem going on at the end of RotS. We still see it in ESB and RotJ. So it seems he can't heal/cure that problem. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Or perhaps he simply chose not to because when he made the address to become the Grand Chancellor of the Republic (or whatever his title was) in the Revenge of the Sith he specifically mentions his injuries have been inflicted by his enemies (I can't recall if he says Jedi or enemies) so it may have been that he kept his disfigurements to show what he personally has sacrificed for the Republic.
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Possible, I just have a hard time believing he spent 20 years looking like that if he could fix it. It looks painful and ugly - and long term it's hard to see that level of uglification helping his PR that much. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Also a good point. I've heard another explanation for it but I'm not sure how cannon it is so I may do some research before I bandy it about.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Possible, I just have a hard time believing he spent 20 years looking like that if he could fix it. It looks painful and ugly - and long term it's hard to see that level of uglification helping his PR that much. |
Yeah, Kim Jong Il even has tall, funny lookin' hair and giant thick platform shoes because he doesn't want to be so short.
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | Possible, I just have a hard time believing he spent 20 years looking like that if he could fix it. It looks painful and ugly - and long term it's hard to see that level of uglification helping his PR that much. |
Yeah, Kim Jong Il even has tall, funny lookin' hair and giant thick platform shoes because he doesn't want to be so short. |
Well yeah, but KJI is bat $h!t crazy. Palpatine's just selfish and evil.
We should probably just be greatful that he doesn't forcibly shorten everyone else around him. KJI, that is, not Palps. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | BTW, since alcohol evaporates more efficiently than water all that alcohol should have had a beneficial cooling effect. So you should be feeling much better than if you had stuck to drinking water. |
Somehow I doubt he is pouring the alchohol on the surface of his skin where evaporation would come into play. 8)
| crmcneill wrote: | I was doing some Star Wars novel reading this weekend, and I came across mention of the Dark Side not functioning well with Force-based healing abilities, and it got me thinking...
Thoughts? |
I can see the Dark Side possibly interferring with Force healing. Interesting idea...
And which novels have you been reading, BTW? Just curious.
| Bren wrote: | | Seems like a reasonable balance. On the other hand, I might allow the healing but make it extremely painful and a process that leaves hideous scarring or some visible Dark Side taint - blackened skin, scales, scars, purple marks, etc. |
I like that idea.
| Esoomian wrote: | I recall reading the same thing although at the time I thought it seemed more like a retconned reason for Vader to have been unable to heal his lungs and still require a mobile life support system despite being strong in The Force.
As I recall (and I read this years ago) Vader could heal his lungs but was unable to maintain the Dark Side emotions (primarily rage) to keep the process going. Every time he tried to start healing his lungs the process would begin to work and he would start feeling hopeful and happy which disrupted the process. |
I remember Shadows of the Empire mentioning Darth Vader's hope to heal himself... If rage is required for that type of healing, then that would be a Dark Side/Sith healing power, but Bren's ideas above could apply to that.
| Bren wrote: | | Although Palpatine has some kind of skin problem going on at the end of RotS. We still see it in ESB and RotJ. So it seems he can't heal/cure that problem. |
LOL. "Some kind of skin problem"? That's a bit of an understatement!
| Esoomian wrote: | | Or perhaps he simply chose not to because when he made the address to become the Grand Chancellor of the Republic (or whatever his title was) in the Revenge of the Sith he specifically mentions his injuries have been inflicted by his enemies (I can't recall if he says Jedi or enemies) so it may have been that he kept his disfigurements to show what he personally has sacrificed for the Republic. |
| Quote: | Palpatine: ...and the Jedi Rebellion has been foiled.
...
Palpatine: The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger! |
| Bren wrote: | | Possible, I just have a hard time believing he spent 20 years looking like that if he could fix it. It looks painful and ugly - and long term it's hard to see that level of uglification helping his PR that much. |
I don't think he could have healed that, but maybe he felt the appearance could help induce fear in others so wouldn't have healed it anyway. I deal with the PR issue in the Whills Universe by Palpatine having an extremely charismatic son, a former Senator himself and decorated Clone War hero (naval commander) who is extremely popular among the Senators. After a couple years the Empire is a bit more settled in and the Emperor retreats from public life and appoints the "Imperial Prince" to be the President of the Imperial Senate and handsome face of the Empire. Then in the time nearing ANH, the Emperor has his own son assasinated in the Senate Hall while in session (and the Rebel Alliance supposedly claims responsibility), which is a part of the excuse Palpatine gives for disbanding the Imperial Senate. So the Emperor's son serves a couple purposes, including procreating more decendents...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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One the few times i have had it come up, i always went with
1 cat shift PER dsp if NOT turned to the dark side.. +3/dsp otherwise.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | Seems like a reasonable balance. On the other hand, I might allow the healing but make it extremely painful and a process that leaves hideous scarring or some visible Dark Side taint - blackened skin, scales, scars, purple marks, etc. |
I like that idea.
| Esoomian wrote: | I recall reading the same thing although at the time I thought it seemed more like a retconned reason for Vader to have been unable to heal his lungs and still require a mobile life support system despite being strong in The Force.
As I recall (and I read this years ago) Vader could heal his lungs but was unable to maintain the Dark Side emotions (primarily rage) to keep the process going. Every time he tried to start healing his lungs the process would begin to work and he would start feeling hopeful and happy which disrupted the process. |
I remember Shadows of the Empire mentioning Darth Vader's hope to heal himself... If rage is required for that type of healing, then that would be a Dark Side/Sith healing power, but Bren's ideas above could apply to that. |
So he might end up with perfectly working but strangely discoloured lungs?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Somehow I doubt he is pouring the alchohol on the surface of his skin where evaporation would come into play. 8) |
As if my sunburn wasn't bad enough, even the idea of pouring hard alcohol on it sounds more painful by orders of magnitude.
| crmcneill wrote: | | I can see the Dark Side possibly interferring with Force healing. Interesting idea... |
I also wonder if it should be limited to healing, or if it should also include Detoxify Poison, Resist Disease, or any similar skills...
| Quote: | | And which novels have you been reading, BTW? Just curious. |
This idea grew out of reading the Darth Bane novels, but it has also featured in some of the Jedi Knight video games (where a character who chooses the Dark path gains useful offensive abilities, but is denied access to protective and healing abilities), with oblique reference in Shadows of the Empire.
As far as the novels, I have a lot of the first wave of SW novelizations, but my interest has waned of late. I tend to concentrate on the era immediately around the films, out to the end of the New Jedi Order, but I haven't purchased any of the Legacy era books. My favorites have always been Tim Zahn's Thrawn books, because Thrawn is always a treat to watch in action...
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Somehow I doubt he is pouring the alchohol on the surface of his skin where evaporation would come into play. 8) |
Well he could always rely on panting for cooling. It works for dogs and cats and the alcohol breath should make it much more efficient.
| Quote: | | Bren wrote: | | Seems like a reasonable balance. On the other hand, I might allow the healing but make it extremely painful and a process that leaves hideous scarring or some visible Dark Side taint - blackened skin, scales, scars, purple marks, etc. |
I like that idea. |
Yeah, sort of a visible Dark Side taint. A lesser version would be to heal the damage but cause significant and horrific scarring or something like the skinless look of the Red Skull (just saw Captain America on Saturday).
| crmcneil wrote: | | I also wonder if it should be limited to healing, or if it should also include Detoxify Poison, Resist Disease, or any similar skills... |
That seems reasonable. All those seem inherently life based and the Dark Side may be less effective or may extract an additional cost to any healing. I could also see Accelerate another's healing causing problems a la Dark Side taint as well. And I love the idea of the healing being extremely painful. I see to recall seeing something like that in one of the old Tales of the Jedi Dark Horse comics. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneil wrote: | | I also wonder if it should be limited to healing, or if it should also include Detoxify Poison, Resist Disease, or any similar skills... |
That seems reasonable. All those seem inherently life based and the Dark Side may be less effective or may extract an additional cost to any healing. I could also see Accelerate another's healing causing problems a la Dark Side taint as well. And I love the idea of the healing being extremely painful. I see to recall seeing something like that in one of the old Tales of the Jedi Dark Horse comics. |
The only problem I see from a gaming standpoint is that pain and disfigurement aren't much in the way of penalties in an RPG unless they somehow affect the character's stats or playability. Penalizing a character for his DSPs when trying to use Light Side-based skills is a concrete effect, and one that may cost the evil character later, but temporary pain and permanent disfigurement end up as little more than notations on the character sheet.
And what you mentioned does sound familiar, but I can't remember the reference...
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