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Enkidu69
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I don't think D6 attributes are on a strictly linear scale. In any case, 7D seems too strong for most earth bears, 5D to 6D seems closer, maybe 6D+1 or so for a Kodiak or Polar bear.
All Star Wars sizes from the Alien Stats book available on this site. All earth bear sizes from wikipedia articles.
Herglic 1.7-1.9 meters STR 3D/5D
Horansi (4 sub-species) 1.5-2.6 meters STR 1D/6D
Houk 2.0-2.6 meters STR 2D+1/5D+2
Whiphid 2.0-2.6 meters STR 2D/4D+2
Wookiee 2.0-2.3 meters STR 2D+2/6D
Note that though Wookiees are sometimes lanky, Herglic and Houk have massive builds similar the the heavy builds of a bear.
Black Bear males 57–250 kg - females weigh 33% less, large specimens reach a weight of 300 kg, 1.1 m in shoulder height and 2.2 m in length
Brown Bears head-and-body length of 1.7 to 2.8 meters and a shoulder height of 90 to 150 centimeters; the largest subspecies are the Kodiak bear, Siberian brown bear, and the bears from coastal Russia, Alaska, and British Columbia. It is not unusual for large males in coastal regions to stand over 3 m while on their hind legs, and to weigh up to 680 kg
Polar Bear is about the same size as the Kodiak bear. |
We shouldn't be looking at the height as much as on the mass. Wookies definitely don't weigh 600kg. Probably between 200-250kg. That means a bear should be stronger. Significantly stronger.
One of the reasons Rancors or elephant sized animals had 7D strength is because with higher strength they could resist tank shots.
I know strength is added to the resist roll so that players wouldn't drop like flies when hit by blasters, but it makes creatures with high strength far too resistant. And, what's more important, it makes combat look completely different than in the movies. |
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Enkidu69 wrote: | | We shouldn't be looking at the height as much as on the mass. Wookies definitely don't weigh 600kg. Probably between 200-250kg. That means a bear should be stronger. Significantly stronger. |
That's not the only factor. Look at Chimpanzees, which are an arboreal species, much like Wookiees. The may not mass as much as a human, but their strength to mass ratio is much higher, due to the environment they were adapted to. The only bear I have seen was a cub that raided our cooler while we were at the lake. We had a lockable ice chest that I would be hard pressed to tear open, but this little bear cub (no bigger than a pit bull or Rottweiler) peeled this ice chest open like an orange.
My point is that neither height nor mass is a good guideline for strength. They may be indicators, but you can't judge something's strength just by those numbers.
| Quote: | | One of the reasons Rancors or elephant sized animals had 7D strength is because with higher strength they could resist tank shots. |
So, why not give them lower strength and make them Walker Scale?
| Quote: | | I know strength is added to the resist roll so that players wouldn't drop like flies when hit by blasters, but it makes creatures with high strength far too resistant. And, what's more important, it makes combat look completely different than in the movies. |
Strength isn't added to the roll, it is the roll. And it helps make combat similar to the movies by making the heroes more durable in combat than the NPCs.
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Enkidu69
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Using scale for big animals sounds like a very good idea. Especially the much improved scale system from D6 Space.
I'm also considering trying out the body points system.
So many options to try... |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Enkidu69 wrote: | | We shouldn't be looking at the height as much as on the mass. Wookies definitely don't weigh 600kg. Probably between 200-250kg. That means a bear should be stronger. Significantly stronger. |
But most bears don't weigh 600kg either. Large Kodiak and Polar bears may, but male black bears mass 57-250 kg with very large individuals massing 300 kg. Females are 33% lighter. So Wookiees seem about the same mass as many bears. Based on the height and the pictures for Houks and Herglics they must be quite massive. 5D-6D still seems a reasonable STR for most bears, with Kodiak bears being a bit stronger - maybe 6D+2 or even 7D for a huge specimen. |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I have played under one gm who had it IF YOU WILLINGLY took the shot (eg wookie in rage), the damage is +1 for every 2 your to hit succeeded by. If dodging it was 1 per 4. |
If I had players who were stupid enough to just stand there, I might need a rule like that. Also, consider if the range is short the to hit difficulty is only Easy, call it a 6, so every 5 points over a 6 = +1 damage. This can add up fast. |
Yup.. Which is why it was used.. To show that even wookies and barabels are NOT invincible..
| Fallon Kell wrote: |
What about instances like I've been in where my 4D strength PC with good armor made a full dodge to intercept a blaster bolt aimed at an unarmored NPC who couldn't dodge. I didn't want to take any more damage than I had to, but was certainly not trying to make the bolt miss. |
You would fall under the standard 1/4 (or 1/5) ratio for better shots..
| Quote: | Well, the big problem I have with D6 damage rules is how tough animals are.
A big bear would probably have between 6D+1 and 7D strength. That means he can tank blaster shoots even better than a wookie. A generic stormtrooper or rebel soldier wouldn't stand a chance against him. And that's just a normal Earth bear, now imagine a bear sized monster with natural armor. Something like that could slaughter whole squads.
It's rather stupid considering how a normal guy with a hunting rifle can easily kill a bear with one shot in real life.
Even with the system made more lethal like I did it would take 3 blaster rifle shots on average to kill a 7D str. animal. |
True.. Perhaps they should have had a seperate SOAK rating based on the species, rather than base it off strength...
| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Don't forget Esoomians (Max Strength 7D) |
I'm not sure how well attested the Esoomian stats are. The fact that at max height 3.5 meters and max STR 7D then can be as strong as a 5.0 meter tall Rancor seems a bit problematic to me. Though it would better support Enkidu69's idea that the largest earth bears should have STR 7D.
Maybe the problem is that the Rancor should either be stronger or should be speeder scale. |
Especially since the Essomian stats iirc are based off of ONE NPC essomian from a book.
One poss suggestion, is to give everyone a flat 2d soak pool, with a bonus based on race.. NOT based on their strength.. BUT this would mean we would have to go through every race in the aliens book and give them a soak rating.[/quote]
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
One poss suggestion, is to give everyone a flat 2d soak pool, with a bonus based on race.. NOT based on their strength.. BUT this would mean we would have to go through every race in the aliens book and give them a soak rating. |
If you were to do that, I'd suggest making that only for energy soak. I'm 6'2" and over 220 lbs. I resist physical damage far better than most people I know.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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The SWRPG is not designed to realistically simulate the effects of actual damage on actual human bodies. It is designed to simulate how big, tough beings resist damage compared to smaller, not so tough beings. With everything really being compared to the typical 2D human. So you have something like the following scale.
1D: Resistance of a tiny or very weak being
2D: Typical human resistance
3D: Resistance of a large and/or tough human
4D: Resistance of a large and tough or really big and/or really tough human, this is virtually the pinnacle of human toughness
5D: Bigger and tougher than a really big, tough human
6D: Extremely, almost ludicrously big and tough - generally considerably larger than a human
7D+: A giant sized creature, much bigger than anything remotely human size |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
One poss suggestion, is to give everyone a flat 2d soak pool, with a bonus based on race.. NOT based on their strength.. BUT this would mean we would have to go through every race in the aliens book and give them a soak rating. |
If you were to do that, I'd suggest making that only for energy soak. I'm 6'2" and over 220 lbs. I resist physical damage far better than most people I know. |
I know others of around your size/height but who "take damage LESS well than someone smaller".. So that is IMO not as much an indicator than it seems.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | If you were to do that, I'd suggest making that only for energy soak. I'm 6'2" and over 220 lbs. I resist physical damage far better than most people I know. |
I know others of around your size/height but who "take damage LESS well than someone smaller".. So that is IMO not as much an indicator than it seems. |
But is a good indicator in fiction. In fiction the hero and the big guy are both usually able to take more damage than other folks.
[EDIT: fixed quote attribution]
Last edited by Bren on Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
One poss suggestion, is to give everyone a flat 2d soak pool, with a bonus based on race.. NOT based on their strength.. BUT this would mean we would have to go through every race in the aliens book and give them a soak rating. |
If you were to do that, I'd suggest making that only for energy soak. I'm 6'2" and over 220 lbs. I resist physical damage far better than most people I know. |
I know others of around your size/height but who "take damage LESS well than someone smaller".. So that is IMO not as much an indicator than it seems. |
I would guess that was more the exception than the rule, otherwise people would be wondering why big bears are so much hard to kill than small ones...
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I would guess that was more the exception than the rule, otherwise people would be wondering why big bears are so much hard to kill than small ones... |
Or we are forgetting that STR in Star Wars is designed to cover both size and toughness (degree of pain sensitivity, familiarity with getting hit, etc.). garhkal may know some small tough guys and some big, not so tough guys.
While Fallon Kell is probably big and tough. |
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
While Fallon Kell is probably big and tough. |
And hairy, and ugly, and cranky.  I want to be Hub McCann from Secondhand Lions when I get old.
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Last edited by Fallon Kell on Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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He may be big and tough.. but to us he is always going to be a cuddly bear!!
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I think I may just purr.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Here.. have a nice jar of honey! And leave my picnic basket alone
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