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Nuclear weapons.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:24 pm    Post subject: Nuclear weapons. Reply with quote

How effective would nuclear weapons be against Star wars ships & shields.

Would a single nuclear warhead be enough to blowup a star destroyer?

Any one with an opinion.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say a nuke got past the shields. Could it destroy a star destroyer? I kinda doubt it. Certainly it would damage it, possibly moderate to heavy damage. But I don't think it would destroy it. Multiple nukes would be more likely to do so.

However, a warhead detonated within an ImpStar, now that's a different story. The ImpStar Invincible was destroyed by a single nuclear warhead planted within the ship during Operation Strike Fear.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Technical Commentaries section over on TheForce.net go into detail about the truly staggering amounts of energy required for ships in the SWU to do what they do. I would hazard a guess that the energy weapons mounted on capital ships inflict enough energy damage (and with more versatility) to render most nukes obsolete. IIRC, proton torpedoes are actually supposed to be miniature nukes.

What with this being Star Wars, I would up the ante and go with something above and beyond nukes. Anti-matter bombs would be a nice choice, but they have a slightly Trek flavor to them.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellcat wrote:
However, a warhead detonated within an ImpStar, now that's a different story. The ImpStar Invincible was destroyed by a single nuclear warhead planted within the ship during Operation Strike Fear.


Which raises an interesting question. Usually, the given damage for an explosive is for detonating on the outer surface of a target, but what if it is inside? What if the heroes smuggle a bomb onto a Star Destroyer that is based on a proton torpedo or concussion missile warhead? How much will the damage differ by being contained inside the mass of a ship? After all, a ship may be designed to absorb damage inflicted from without, but the designers may not have paid as much attention to damage inflicted from within.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doubt that. Most US ships are made to withstand internal explosions almost as much as external ones.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would depend on where the explosion was I'd say.
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Doubt that. Most US ships are made to withstand internal explosions almost as much as external ones.


Nuclear explosions?
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Doubt that. Most US ships are made to withstand internal explosions almost as much as external ones.
Ah, but as we see in ANH the designs that the Empire uses are a bit less robust. Laughing
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ah, but as we see in ANH the designs that the Empire uses are a bit less robust. Laughing


That is why i find it hard to believe that an ISD can withstand a nuke. The materials it is made of are not able to withstand the super high temperatures any better than any other form of matter. The question then is the shields.
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Praxian
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't think that suicide would be a trick that the Rebellion would use. I say that, because the only way to make sure that a Nuke goes off inside of an enemy ship would be to make sure your on it, and then set it off by hand as during a fight, communications would be on lock down and they'd be keeping all incoming signals from escaping their initial thing.

Could it be gotten around, maybe. But if it's internal like you're wanting, it's deep enough inside that an external signal isn't getting in.

I would say do something like aim a Nuke at the engines and run away fast. =D

That oughta do something.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Praxian wrote:
I wouldn't think that suicide would be a trick that the Rebellion would use.
Typically I would expect the Rebellion to try to have a plan that would let the bombers escape first, but the odds might be really bad of them succeeding.

I tend to run the main Rebel Alliance as fighting a just war with most of all that entails. But I expect local Rebel groups (and individual Rebels) may take things farther and I can see some bitter or fanatical Rebels being willing to die to take out a large enough number of Imperials and a SD would certainly qualify.

The idea of how much the Rebellion follows just war doctrine, especially jus in bello is probably worth a separate thread. I'll post something over in the Gamemaster section.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say a nuclear blast (external) would at least cripple a Star Destroyer. Aside from the vaproizing effects near the hypocenter of the blast (I think the area of the Hiroshima bomb was ~1.5km for vaporization of matter) and the resulting damage (assuming that shields MIGHT deal with that), they also generate a pretty intense EMP, which would act like an ion cannon blast, shutting the ship down pretty effectively.

I do think the energy release of the explosion would be sufficient to at least cause some pretty major damage to a ship like a Star Destroyer; it's enough to level an entire city, a much smaller ship would suffer major damage as well (the whole ship would be within the strongest damage radius of even a moderate warhead). A turbolaser would produce a lot of energy, but it's also of a specific form (wavelength and frequency), which shields would be designed to deal with; a nuclear blast includes thermal, gamma ray, x-ray, neutrons, etc. that would likely overwhelm the shields and then the structural integrity of the hull materials. Add in the effects of radiation and, even if the ship stays intact, the crew would be charred husks Razz
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Lostboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very concise and well thought out Ankhanu. I agree with you. Thanks.
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Kemper Boyd
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that nuclear explosions in space aren't nearly as destructive as ones in an atmosphere. Also, there will be no real EMP pulse in deep space.

Edit: remembered I had a physicist friend nearby. He said that considering average nuke size, the plasma from the explosion loses most of it's destructive capacity after about 20-30 meters, and the radiation pulse over a distance of approximately one kilometer. To get a real effect, you need a penetrating warhead like a modern bunker buster.
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Gamer
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'A warhead' is going to depend on it's yield.

Quote:
I wouldn't think that suicide would be a trick that the Rebellion would use.


suicide or self sacrifice call it what you will.
But if you think that a soldier wouldn't do it for those he fights next to, then stay off the battlefield.

Just war Laughing Laughing
I'll leave that for those who have never fought in one to debate over, they never understand them anyway.
I'll stick with the rules of engagement.
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