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Ship's NPC crew size and skill level?
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Spartikis
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Ship's NPC crew size and skill level? Reply with quote

Ok, so ive got a group for a new champaign, will be myself and two others.

Im planning on giving them all shared ownership of a yz-775 freighter, only with altered stats (5D hull, 3D shield isntead of 7Dhull, 6D shield). But it requires a crew of 8, plus it wouldnt hurt to have a captain/officer. Even if i play a character of my own were going to be like 6 crew short.

Would having 6+ NPCs take away from that "tight-knit" feel of the crew? I would normally just assign droid but this is a privateer vessel so they need a decent sized crew.

Also, how "powerful" should i make the NPC? I dont want them to be as strong as the PCs, as they are meant to be "hero-ish" but i also dont want to have the NPC crew die everytime then run into a squad of stormtroopers. I was thinking maybe 15 Dice instead of the 18 and individual skills no higher than 4D or 5D, such as blaster, gunnery, etc? They should be slightly stronger than basic soldiers but not powerful enough to take on major villan. That seem reasonable?

Also, do you advance the skills of the NPC crew over time or give them character points to spend? i feel like thats a lot of work, maybe i can just add a pip to one random skill after every adventure?

Thanks for the input!
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Guardian_A
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt recommend adding a bunch of NPCs to the crew right away, you dont want to take the focus away from the player characters.

For starters, given the armament of the ship you chose, its likely that 3 of the crew would be gunners.

Also, you only need a skeleton crew to get by, and a skeleton crew is usually roughly 1/3 the size of a full crew. Just remember, if you are running on a skeleton crew, you suffer a +10 difficulty.

One way I have dealt with crew shortages in the past is to either modify the ship so it dosnt need as many crew members (I usually reflect this in a -1 maneuverability for every 10% you have reduced the crew by.) The other way I have dealt with this is by giving the players access to a small number of droids to operate some of the crew slots. Giving them a pair of R2 units and a modified 3P0 unit could go a long way towards solving the crew shortage problem without drawing any of the focus away from the player characters.
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TyCaine
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than 1 character each plus a GM controlled NPC, leaving slots open for 5 or 6 others, have you considered getting the players to create 2 or even 3 characters each?

One of my own groups which was a small one we did something similar, using one character as the 'primary' with 1 or 2 others as secondaries, this allowed the player to switch between characters at certain points in the story, and at one point the 'primaries' went one way, the secondaries went the other, effectively giving us the possibility of two adventures stemming from the one story.

We managed that part by one session handling the primaries and what happened for them, getting them to a good 'pause' point, then next session used the other characters, and so on until the group reconnected, at which point the primaries take the spotlight and the secondaries become the lifters and the carriers once more, so to speak.

Is it more work? Obviously a least a little more, since each player will be handling multiple characters, the main point is to focus on their primary character most of the time, while still having the others for reactions and interactions. It also allows for the main character to become wounded and have to heal without having the player 'benched' for a time as they have another to fall back on.

We also had where some had 2 humanoids and a droid as their characters, giving a primary, secondary, and a droid as backup...

With this method the question of stats is moot as you would just have the players generate the additional stats.

Just a thought... Very Happy


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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just use a ship with a smaller crew requirement and add a few (quirky) droids... Laughing Perhaps one NPC on top of that.. Dont forget to make the NPC a unique personality and not a 'robot' that does exactly what he/she is told.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or use some generic pirate like npcs.. Most are in the 12-14d attributes, 10d skills with most 4d or 5d..
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TyCaine wrote:
Rather than 1 character each plus a GM controlled NPC, leaving slots open for 5 or 6 others, have you considered getting the players to create 2 or even 3 characters each?
I would echo TyCaine's comment. We frequently do this, both in Star Wars and in other games we play e.g. Call of Cthulhu or Star Trek. It does take some extra work by both players and GM and the players need to be willing to try to only act on what a given character (rather than the player) knows in each situation. But this can be very rewarding and a good way to have a lot of character interaction amongst the players, without having the players always talking to NPCs or worst yet the NPCs spending most of the screen time talking to themselves. If you think of the ship and the stable of characters as being something like a TV show where each adventure may feature or focus on a different character or group of characters that often works well. Wink
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Those are some ways to do it. I don't recommend players playing multiple main characters unless they are very good roleplayers (perhaps they are). If you absolutely must do this, then I recommend no more than 2 PCs per player. But I've had an overall bad experience with players running multiple PCs so I stopped doing that a long time ago.

ZzaphodD wrote:
Just use a ship with a smaller crew requirement and add a few (quirky) droids... Laughing Perhaps one NPC on top of that.. Dont forget to make the NPC a unique personality and not a 'robot' that does exactly what he/she is told.

I'll echo ZzaphodD's comment. Having a larger ship with a significantly higher crew requirement than how many you players you have seems to be unnecessarily creating more problems to solve. Just scale down the ship. That may scale down the types of adventures you were planning, but you only have two players.

Spartikis wrote:
i also dont want to have the NPC crew die everytime then run into a squad of stormtroopers.

I would make any NPCs be only supporting characters that usually stay behind on the ship, so they don't usually run into a squad of stormtroopers. (I'm fond of running the quirky ship's droids.) Droids or not, the NPCs could be hired hands with not much skill outside a few starship operations and repair skills. Besides, do you really want to run a character combat encounter where you are rolling for 6+ ship's crew NPCs and 9 stormtroopers? 15+ NPCs and 2 PCs? That's RPG masturbation with your two players just watching most of the time! 8)
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Spartikis
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I would make any NPCs be only supporting characters that usually stay behind on the ship, so they don't usually run into a squad of stormtroopers. (I'm fond of running the quicky ship's droids.) Droids or not, the NPCs could be hired hands with not much skill outside a few starship operations and repair skills. Besides, do you really want to run a character combat encounter where you are rolling for 6+ ship's crew NPCs and 9 stormtroopers? 15+ NPCs and 2 PCs? That's RPG masturbation with your two players just watching most of the time! 8)

I like the last comment. I really am to inexperienced as a Gm to be running battles with 15+ ppl at a time, anything over about 5 ppl and i started gettign confused making mistakes, it gets slow and the players get bored and start playing with cellphones or other stuff.

I think scaling the ship down from the large 52m vessel with 8 crew to something with like a 2+ crew would be best but we found the deckplan of this yz-775 and fell in love with in.

http://www.swdesignalliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=1523.0

I think i can make it work though, if we use our 3 PC and add in 2 average stats NPCs as pilot and engineer that always stay behind to watch the ship (can pick them up after an exciting adventure) and then fill in the other 3 spots with some quirky droids.

I was thinking a R2 unit that when he gets nervous he starts shaking and his fire extinguisher akwardly goes off, or a 3PO droid with a missing limb that is constantly telling war stories and giving advice that always starts off with "When i was a young droid..."

Does that seem reasonable? The 3 PCs would be for boarding and combat scene (bounty hunter, mercenary and pirate) and would be easy for me to handle and keep the game moving, the other 5 droids/NPCs will add to the adventure but can easily be left behind to "guard" the ship while the PCs are off fighting and doing exciting stuff.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Spartikis wrote:
I like the last comment. I really am to inexperienced as a Gm to be running battles with 15+ ppl at a time...
Good insight. You should definitely construct a campaign that features the kind of play you are comfortable running. Rather than something that will always be pushing the edges of your GM comfort zone.

http://www.swdesignalliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=1523.0

Quote:
I think i can make it work though, if we use our 3 PC and add in 2 average stats NPCs as pilot and engineer that always stay behind to watch the ship (can pick them up after an exciting adventure) and then fill in the other 3 spots with some quirky droids.
You could also assume the ship has been modified with droid brains or other technical hand waving to run with the number of crew 3 PCs plus 2 NPCs that you are comfortable running. The low crew just allows you as the GM to add some quirky maintenance issues to personalize the ship.

I lreally ike the old one armed 3PO droid. You could even provide kernels of useful info or hints at useful stratgegy amidst the old war stories. "I remember the time I was with General Ki Adi Mundi, we faced something like that at the Battle of Blabbonosis. Now what Generaal Mundi did was..." and then give the PCs a strategy hint. On the other grasper, the premature extinguisher conjures an image that I, as a player, would find less enjoyable on a repeating basis, but to each his or her own. Wink

Quote:
Does that seem reasonable? The 3 PCs would be for boarding and combat scene (bounty hunter, mercenary and pirate) and would be easy for me to handle and keep the game moving, the other 5 droids/NPCs will add to the adventure but can easily be left behind to "guard" the ship while the PCs are off fighting and doing exciting stuff.
Seems very reasonable. And if you end up getting comfortable with the players running multiple characters, they can always personalize and run the NPCs. We found it worked very well to have the players and the GM create the many officers needed when we ran ships with crews of 100+. As a GM it sometimes taxes my creativity to come up with 8 or 10 personalities and with the players involved as co-creators they have more ownership for the crew.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, adnd has things like henchmen and hirelings to help fill out needed numbers... perhaps the npcs they need are akin to henchmen for their pcs..
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Wisconsin Wookie
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Those are some ways to do it. I don't recommend players playing multiple main characters unless they are very good roleplayers (perhaps they are). If you absolutely must do this, then I recommend no more than 2 PCs per player. But I've had an overall bad experience with players running mutliple PCs so I stopped doing that a long time ago.



I am considering using multipice PCs per player in a new campaign and am just curious if you would mind elaborating on the bad experience you've had. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of and want to think it through first
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Praxian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definately echo the different ship comment.

Having players play multiple roles and chars on a ship is definately an advanced player move, and if your players are advanced like that, cool.

But if not, I highly reccomend not doing that.

I would suggest the Ghtroc 720 Frieghter.

Crew of 1, requires 1 gunner, and has room for 10 passengers and 135 metric tons of storage.

Also, if you don't mind the Droid NPC (or even just a droid brain for the guns), the YT-2400 ship.

Crew of 2, Gunner 1, 6 passengers, and room for 150 metric tons of cargo.

There's more, but those two would definately be my suggestion.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Wisconsin Wookie wrote:
Whill wrote:
Those are some ways to do it. I don't recommend players playing multiple main characters unless they are very good roleplayers (perhaps they are). If you absolutely must do this, then I recommend no more than 2 PCs per player. But I've had an overall bad experience with players running mutliple PCs so I stopped doing that a long time ago.


I am considering using multipice PCs per player in a new campaign and am just curious if you would mind elaborating on the bad experience you've had. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of and want to think it through first

If a player isn't a really good roleplayer, he may play both PCs with the same personality. If a player grows to enjoy one PC over the other, the less favored one may become dull and neglected.

Instead of having more than one PC per player, as an option you could just "beef-up" the PCs if you feel the lower number of PCs just couldn't hack it in your campaign concept. There have been several campaigns where I gave the PCs more skill dice to allocate during character creation. Of course, that still won't help with raw crew requirements of a ship (but may compensate for the skeleton crew penalty). And keep in mind that the more skill dice the PCs start out with is less "play room" you have before the PCs become too powerful, so you don't want to over do it.
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Henrik.Balslev
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
You could also assume the ship has been modified with droid brains or other technical hand waving to run with the number of crew 3 PCs plus 2 NPCs that you are comfortable running. The low crew just allows you as the GM to add some quirky maintenance issues to personalize the ship.


like the Go Corp CD-12a Autopilot Droid Brain - I cant remember where it can be found, but I beleive the stats are similar to this

Type: Go Corp CD-12a Autopilot Droid Brain
Dexterity 0D
Knowledge 1D
Mechanical 1D; Space Transports 4D
Perception 1D
Strength 0D
Technical 1D; Space Transports Repair 2D
Availability: 4, R
Game Notes: Wrist activator has a range of up to 5 kilometres
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Spartikis, welcome! Reply with quote

Wisconsin Wookie wrote:
Whill wrote:
Those are some ways to do it. I don't recommend players playing multiple main characters unless they are very good roleplayers (perhaps they are). If you absolutely must do this, then I recommend no more than 2 PCs per player. But I've had an overall bad experience with players running mutliple PCs so I stopped doing that a long time ago.



I am considering using multipice PCs per player in a new campaign and am just curious if you would mind elaborating on the bad experience you've had. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of and want to think it through first


Issues i have seen.
1) player runs all pcs as if they are the bestest of friends/family, always willing to give/loan/borrow what ever is needed at the time from the other characters under his pool.
2) 1 of the pcs ran more as a henchman of the 2nd..
3) pcs all ran as clones of one another, even if of diametrically opposed views (eg medic and gunbunny)..
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