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Jekolmy
Cadet
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: How exactly does Ion damage affect starships? |
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Hi all, I just registered here because you all seem like nice folk and I have some questions.
I don't own any of the actual non-fan based d6 SW books, but I do own the generic d6 books. Anyways what game (mechanical) effect does ion damage have exactly on ships? I know in the movies/EU that ion cannons are used to disable ships, but how does this damage work in combat? Thanks in advance. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Page 127 Star Wars Revised & Expanded wrote: |
Ion Cannons. Ion cannons are designed to interfere with a ship's electrical and computer systems but do not cause physical damage. Shields cannot protect a ship from ion cannon damage.
Example:
Rhen has placed the modified 2D shields of the YT-1300 transport (hull code 4D) to the back fire arc. Any laser cannon attacks that hit the freighter roll against the YT-1300's combined 6D hull code and shields.
However, ion cannon blasts slice right through the shields. Rhen only rolls the YT- 1300's 4D hull code to resist damage from ion cannons.
If the damage roll is lower than the ship's hull code roll, it takes no damage. If the damage roll is equal to or higher than the hull code roll, find the results below.
Damage Above soak: = Effect:
0-3 = controls ionized
4-8 = 2 controls ionized
9-12 = 3 controls ionized
13-15 = 4 controls ionized
16+ = controls dead
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As for controls ionized:
| Page 128 Star Wars Revised & Expanded wrote: |
Controls ionized. A controls ionized result means that the ship's controls are temporarily overwhelmed by power surges. The ship loses -1D from its maneuverability, shields and weapon fire control and damage for the rest of that round and the next round.
If a ship is suffering from as many controls ionized results as the ship has maneuverability dice, the ship's controls are frozen for the next two rounds. The ship must maintain the same speed and direction for the next two rounds; it may not turn, fire weapons, make shield attempts or take any other actions, making the ship an easy target for enemy gunners.
The pilot must still make the piloting rolls or the ship automatically crashes (if there's anything to run into) or goes spinning out of control.
When controls are frozen, blue lightning plays across all of the controls of the vehicle, as seen when Luke Skywalker's snow speeder was destroyed in The Empire Strikes Back. |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Raven beat me to it. Curse my slow typing skills! 
Welcome to the Rancor Pit! |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Oh yes, welcome to the pit!
I hope that helps clear up the question with regards to Ion damage. I have had an issue once where after I hit an enemy freighter with 4 or 5 blasts from an ion cannon, they still managed to kick their ship into hyperspace. I'm under the impression that a ship that is ionized cannot activate it's hyperdrive, since it states that no actions can be taken other than a crash prevention roll. Has anyone else ever had a similar situation or come up with some sort of ruling on how it would work? |
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Is there any example in the books that Ion Cannons bypass energy shields?
In X-wing, TIE fighter computer games they do not. On Wookieepedia I have found: "They also helped to drop shields prior to destroying enemy vessels."
_________________
Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | | Is there any example in the books that Ion Cannons bypass energy shields? |
No, nor is there any explicit evidence in the films. The only time an Ion Cannon is used is in ESB when the KDY v-150 disables a Star Destroyer over Hoth. WEG took that one scene and made a blanket decision that shields are ineffective against ion cannon.
| Quote: | | In X-wing, TIE fighter computer games they do not. On Wookieepedia I have found: "They also helped to drop shields prior to destroying enemy vessels." |
That's the way I play it, that ion cannon attack a ship's shields first, bringing them down before they affect the hull. Whatever WEG's reasoning might have been, I find it ridiculous that military vessels have, as their only defensive system, shields that are only effective against one of the three primary weapons used in space combat.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Jekolmy
Cadet
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: |
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IIRC
In the X-wing series (EU) book 4, the Lusankya targets the Freedom (an Imp II) with her Ion Cannon only and completely wipes out her shields on the port? side of the warship... and causes other issues such as exploding consoles ect. I think in book 1 they use ion cannon in an attempt to drop a small base shield. So I would think it reasonable that Ion Cannon would be used to drop shields and disable ships as well.[/i] |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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<Cue the snooty people talking about how they don't accept the EU material as canon>
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Jekolmy
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Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| To each their own, but I should have remembered that little bit myself. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | <Cue the snooty people talking about how they don't accept the EU material as canon> |
THIS must surely be ironic! 
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My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Nico_Davout wrote: | | Is there any example in the books that Ion Cannons bypass energy shields? |
No, nor is there any explicit evidence in the films. The only time an Ion Cannon is used is in ESB when the KDY v-150 disables a Star Destroyer over Hoth. WEG took that one scene and made a blanket decision that shields are ineffective against ion cannon.
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Yup. But i do like that they bypass shields.. one of the best ways to take enemy ships without damaging them!..
| crmcneill wrote: |
| Quote: | | In X-wing, TIE fighter computer games they do not. On Wookieepedia I have found: "They also helped to drop shields prior to destroying enemy vessels." |
That's the way I play it, that ion cannon attack a ship's shields first, bringing them down before they affect the hull. Whatever WEG's reasoning might have been, I find it ridiculous that military vessels have, as their only defensive system, shields that are only effective against one of the three primary weapons used in space combat. |
Here are my house rules for Ions..
12. For Ions in ship to ship combat, use the following damage chart:
Damage => hull roll 0-4 1 system shut down for 2d6 combat rounds
D > hull 5-8 2 systems affected
D > hull 9-12 3 systems affected, and 1 shut down for 2d6 minutes
D > hull 13-16 4 systems affected and 2 shut down for 2d6 minutes
For every additional 4 more over soak the damage is, add another 1 system.
Compute up the ship’s systems as such:
Each ship (fighter) has a minimum of
Life support
Computer
Main power
Sub light engines (atmospheric use only fighters do not have this)
Repulsors
Sensors/Communications
Shields (ONLY for ships with a shield stat)
Maneuvering thrusters
Hyper drive (not all fighters have one)
X wings and Y wings also add in the droid interface system
And each weapon is considered one system
Freighters have the above PLUS
Hyperdrive
Back up hyperdrive
Nav computer
Back up Nav comp (some only)
Capital ships, have the above plus several others, such as
Back up power
Hanger control
Sample effects for systems taken off line
Life support (includes artificial grav) –
Fighter -1d hours of usable oxygen
Freighter – 2 hrs of operation for every 3 tons of storage
Capital – 4 hrs for every 3 tons of storage
Power - No weapons, life support, computers or any other system
Engines (hyperdrive is separate) - no speed increase/decrease /no use of hyperdrive (diff starship repair roll to bring back up hyp on line)
Computers (including Nav comp) - loss of all weapons fire control or inability to go to hyperspace for the navigation computer
Sensors – loss of fire control and loss of ability to detect anything
Comms – inability to send or receive any information.
EG. Johas is fighting some pirates. His Ywing has a 4d ion damage, and the pirates ship is 4d+1 hull.. so all things equal, he won't really do much.
BUT he gets a lucky roll and causes 2 systems to go down this round.
The pirate ship (a freighter) has
Comms *1*
Life Support *2*
Sub light engines *3*
Repulsors *4*
Shields *5*
Maneuvering thrusters *6*
Main power *7*
Sensors *8*
Computer *9*
Back up Nav computer *10*
Hyperdrive *11*
Back up hyperdrive *12*
Weapon 1 (turbo laser) *13
Weapon 2 (concussion missile launcher) *14*
Weapon 3 (dorsal Ion turret) *15*
and Weapon 4 (ventral ion turret) *16*
16 systems..
So Johas rolls 3d6-2 twice to get which systems are taken down.
he rolls 4,3,3 (for 10-2 = 8) Sensors, and 1,3,2 (6-2 =4) for Repulsors.
Each system is taken down for 2d6 rounds. SO he rolls 4 and 5 for 9 rounds for sensors, and 2, 5 for 7 rounds for the repulsors. Since at this time they ARE in a planet's atmosphere, the enemy ship starts to crash as their repulsors are down.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Yup. But i do like that they bypass shields.. one of the best ways to take enemy ships without damaging them!.. |
There is that. My main reason for going a different route has more to do with rationality than gameplay. We can reasonably assume that the weaponry for space combat in SWU hasn't changed much in the last few decades; weaponry consists of laser cannon, ion cannon, warheads and tractor beams. Defensive systems consist of shields, hull armor, and prayer (if your character believes in that sort of thing). WEG would have us believe that combat shields are only effective against laser weaponry, and leave the ship entirely vulnerable to ion cannon, warheads and tractor beams. Realistically, after the first few dozen ships were lost to weaponry other than laser weapons, someone in the military would take notice and make some noise. Eventually, military research and development would produce shields that are, in fact, effective against all four types of attacks. If the Clone Wars produced a major leap forward in military technology, it makes no sense for shield technology to have been left in the dust.
I do agree that ion cannon should provide that sucker punch effect for starship combat, disabling an enemy's shields and systems to unbalance and disorient them for a "knock-out" blow from the ship's main batteries. I just think it should've been done differently than a blanket ruling that ion cannon are unaffected by shields. There is no concrete evidence in the canon to suggest that this is the case, and the majority of the EU has gone the other way, allowing shields to block ion cannon (though not effortlessly).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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BTW: The shields in the book also holds against missiles. In the books there is only kind of shields, that holds against everything. Like in computer games.
Bacta War:
Drysso stared down at his aide. "How many incoming torpedo tracks, Lieutenant Waroen?"
"Twenty, sir."
Two per X-wing. Survivable. "You see, only twenty."
"Wait, sir. I have twenty-four."
"No matter."
"Now I have forty, no, eighty. Eight zero."
Drysso's jaw dropped as he saw a nova flare blossom up over the horizon of his starboard bow. The shields held for a second or two, then collapsed.
_________________
Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Here are my house rules for Ions... |
Thanks for sharing. Two comments:
(1) You state that | garhkal wrote: | Life support (includes artificial grav) –
Fighter -1d hours of usable oxygen
Freighter – 2 hrs of operation for every 3 tons of storage
Capital – 4 hrs for every 3 tons of storage |
I think this needs tweaking. It seems like storage would not be the deciding factor, but habitable space and number of persons aboard. A passenger liner would have more oxygen available (and should have better backup) than a cargo transport. Also, not all cargo spaces are heated or even filled with breathable atmosphere.
(2) In your example, rolling 3D-2 you don't have a linear probability of each system being hit. This means that you should either switch to a linear probability or put the systems that are easiest to knock out in the middle of the distribution curve and the systems that are hard to knock out at the top and bottom of the curve. Your example list needs some tweaking. I can see where a good ship design would want to ensure that communications and life support are not easy to knock out, but I don't see weapons systems being more hardened than say maneuvering thrusters.
Overall, this seems useful, and having ship specific lists could be a nice way to customize ships. The list could even be adjusted for same vessel types that are customized. |
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